--- --- # Stephen Colbert Made a Clip of Rudy Giuliani Having a Heated Debate With Rudy Giuliani  by [Raisa Bruner](https://time.com/author/raisa-bruner/)  ## Raisa Bruner Jul 31, 2018 2:51 PM UTC  by [Raisa Bruner](https://time.com/author/raisa-bruner/)  ## Raisa Bruner Jul 31, 2018 2:51 PM UTC Rudy Giuliani is having a contentious few [weeks in the news.](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2018/7/30/17630148/giuliani-trump-tower-cohen-mueller-russia) And _Late Show_ host [Stephen Colbert](http://time.com/5346761/stephen-colbert-on-trump-iran-tweet/) has a dramatization of the former [New York City mayor](http://time.com/5299599/giuliani-trump-mueller-investigation-pardon/)‘s [ongoing battle](http://time.com/5267466/john-oliver-rudy-giuliani-last-week-tonight/) with the media — and himself — as he continues to defend President Donald Trump against [allegations of collusion](http://time.com/5352628/donald-trump-rudy-giuliani-collusion-crime/) and questions of [recordings](http://time.com/5346383/michael-cohen-prosecutors-audio-recordings/) held by his former lawyer [Michael Cohen](http://time.com/5351036/donald-trump-denies-knowing-trump-tower-meeting/). To illustrate his changing position on the character of Cohen, Colbert tapped the beloved, tricky creature [Gollum](http://time.com/4854633/andy-serkis-reads-trump-tweets-video/) of _Lord of the Rings_ fame to show Giuliani’s two minds. (Gollum, famously possessed by his desire to reunite with his [“precious” ring](http://time.com/4216226/world-travel-movies-2/item/lord-of-the-rings-the-fellowship-of-the-ring/), often fights himself as he tries to decide whether to trust Frodo or destroy him.) In the _Late Show_ clip, Gollum and Giuliani’s disembodied head have a heated back-and-forth about the trustworthiness of Cohen, all based off of actual soundbites delivered by Giuliani. “I like Michael Cohen,” Gollum begins. “The man is a liar, a proven liar,” Giuliani-as-Gollum rebuts. “Michael’s not gonna lie, he’s gonna tell the truth.” “There’s nobody that I know that hasn’t warned me that if his back is up against the wall, he’ll lie like crazy. He’s lied all his life.” “The man is an honest, honorable lawyer.” “There’s no way you’re gonna bring down the President of the United States on the testimony, uncorroborated, of a proven liar.” Looks like Colbert has found one creative way to highlight some of Giuliani’s conflicting opinions of Cohen — although, given its foundation in literary myth, it might not hold up in court. Stephen Colbert Is Pitting Rudy Giuliani Against Himself ```json [{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","@id":"https://time.com/5353870/stephen-colbert-giuliani/","mainEntityOfPage":{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https://time.com/5353870/stephen-colbert-giuliani/"},"headline":"Stephen Colbert Made a Clip of Rudy Giuliani Having a Heated Debate With Rudy Giuliani","datePublished":"2018-07-31T14:51:08.000Z","dateModified":"2026-04-13T07:54:05.101Z","description":"It's Gollum vs. Giuliani","url":"https://time.com/5353870/stephen-colbert-giuliani/","keywords":["Newsfeed","Late Night Television"],"thumbnailUrl":"","author":[{"@type":"Person","name":"Raisa Bruner","jobTitle":null,"url":"https://time.com/author/raisa-bruner/"}],"articleSection":"","image":[],"publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"Time","url":"https://time.com/","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","url":"https://time.com/images/logo.png","width":528,"height":156},"foundingDate":"March 3, 1923","sameAs":["https://www.facebook.com/time","https://www.instagram.com/time/?hl=en","https://twitter.com/time","https://www.pinterest.com/timemagazine"]}},{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"BreadcrumbList","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"item":{"@id":"/tag/time-section-newsfeed/","name":"Newsfeed"}},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"item":{"@id":"https://time.com/5353870/stephen-colbert-giuliani/","name":"Stephen Colbert Made a Clip of Rudy Giuliani Having a Heated Debate With Rudy Giuliani"}}]}] ```