--- title: Caster Semenya Is Still Fighting to Be Recognized as a Woman description: In her new book 'The Race to Be Myself,' Olympic gold medalist Caster Semenya details her long fight to run as a woman. canonical: https://time.com/6330414/caster-semenya-race-to-be-myself-interview/ author: Sean Gregory article:opinion: false article:content_tier: free article:published_time: 2023-11-02T19:02:50.000Z article:modified_time: 2026-08-04T07:50:47.145Z article:section: Sports og:title: Caster Semenya Isn't Just Fighting for Herself og:description: "It’s a reminder to those out there who feel rejected that they belong." og:url: https://time.com/6330414/caster-semenya-race-to-be-myself-interview/ og:site_name: TIME og:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt813c3ffc2af2a96c/698a41e0457a529b0ad681bc/GettyImages-1409977483.jpg?branch=production&width=1024&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 og:image:width: 1024 og:image:height: 576 og:image:alt: World Athletics Championships Oregon22 - Day Six og:type: article twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: Caster Semenya Isn't Just Fighting for Herself twitter:description: "It’s a reminder to those out there who feel rejected that they belong." twitter:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt813c3ffc2af2a96c/698a41e0457a529b0ad681bc/GettyImages-1409977483.jpg?branch=production&width=1024&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 ---  # Caster Semenya Isn't Just Fighting for Herself > Sponsored content. 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TIME's Rebecca Gitlitz and Sean Gregory discuss Spain's World Cup win and how women athletes continue to be underrepresented changemakers._  by [Sean Gregory](https://time.com/author/sean-gregory/)  ## Sean Gregory Senior Correspondent Nov 2, 2023 7:02 PM UTC  Caster Semenya of Team South Africa competes in the Women's 5000m heats on day six of the World Athletics Championships Oregon22 at Hayward Field on July 20, 2022 in Eugene, Oregon. Caster Semenya of Team South Africa competes in the Women's 5000m heats on day six of the World Athletics Championships Oregon22 at Hayward Field on July 20, 2022 in Eugene, Oregon. Andy Lyons— World Athletics/Getty Images  by [Sean Gregory](https://time.com/author/sean-gregory/)  ## Sean Gregory Senior Correspondent Nov 2, 2023 7:02 PM UTC On June 30, 2019, South African runner [Caster Semenya](https://time.com/collection/100-most-influential-people-2019/5567679/caster-semenya/)—already a three-time world champ and two-time Olympic gold medalist in the 800-m—lined up at the starting line at Stanford University, to roars from the American crowd. She would win the prestigious Prefontaine Classic, with a time of 1 min. 55.70 sec., the fastest 800-m time ever run on American soil. It was her 31rd straight victory in the 800-m. Fans [crowded around a fence ](https://time.com/5629249/caster-semenya-interview/)after it was over to voice their appreciation for the superstar. As she writes in her memoir, [_The Race to Be Myself_](https://bookshop.org/a/4973/9781324035770)_,_ Semenya was convinced that, that fall in Doha, she would break the 800-m world record while winning a fourth straight world-championship title. Semenya never got the chance. She still hasn’t run a 800-m race, in fact, since that beautiful day in Palo Alto. A month later, a Swiss court upheld 2018 regulations from the IAAF, the track-and-field world governing body now named World Athletics, barring Semenya and other athletes with [“differences of sex development” ](https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/differences-in-sex-development/#:~:text=Differences%20in%20sex%20development%20%28DSD,different%20to%20most%20other%20people's.)(DSD) from running in certain races, including the 800-m, unless they lowered their testosterone levels to a certain threshold via medical intervention. Semenya refused, and she’s continued to fight the regulations. In July she [won a ruling](https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/11/sport/caster-semenya-wins-appeal-discriminatory-testosterone-limit-spt-intl/index.html) in a European human rights court that leaves a door slightly ajar for a return. But she was not able to defend her 800-m gold medal at the Tokyo Olympics, and odds are, Semenya, 32, has run her last Olympic race. By the time Semenya raced in Palo Alto, she had been facing questions about her gender for a decade. They first swirled in 2009, when at 18 she won the 800-m world-championship win in Berlin. Since then, Semenya has been at the center of a raging debate about fairness in women’s sports, appropriate definitions of gender, and the right to run, free of whispers and judgment. Now she’s ready to share her side. Semenya talked to TIME in New York City about her childhood, the indignities of gender testing, why she should still be running, and her future in sports. **Why write this memoir now?** You want to tell a story when you're in a good state of mind. When you’re at peace. As well as when you have enough time. It’s about time I support those who need me. It’s a reminder to those out there who feel rejected that they belong. The most important thing that you can do for yourself is just to accept yourself for who you are. Appreciate yourself, embrace yourself. Just make yourself happy. ### More From TIME **You write about your childhood growing up in** **Ga-Masehlong, a village in South Africa. You discuss “the law of the bush.” What’s the “law of the bush”?** What happens in the bush stays in the bush. It’s like what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. We play \[soccer\], we hunt. We do crazy things, like fight. So if let's say, for instance, I had a fight with you in the bush. No one should know about it. It has to be about us. It's more like a sisterhood or brotherhood. It's a very simple law. **Read More:** [_Allyson Felix: Tori Bowie Can't Die in Vain_](https://time.com/6287392/tori-bowie-allyson-felix-black-maternal-health/) **Another thing I learned from the book is that, when you were 7 years old, you spent seven months in a hospital waiting for a doctor to conduct an operation on your injured knee. Seven months! How did that affect you?** Being on my own helped me understand myself better. It pained me when my mom and sister came to visit me, and then they left. That was the beginning of understanding your zone and understanding being on your own and understanding to survive without depending on anyone. Just figuring out how to live life. **You were a talented soccer player growing up. You write, however, that running turns your mind “inward,” and team sports like soccer turn your mind “outward,” and you prefer an “inward” mindset. What do you mean by this?** Well, in team sports, it's never about me alone. It's about the team. But while I'm \[running\] alone, I don't have to blame anyone. No one has to blame me. I blame myself if I lose. I correct it, alone. In the team, we have to go sit as a team to fix the problem, which may not be fixed. You may keep on losing, losing, losing. When I'm running, I feel free because I have no worries. My loss is my loss. My win is my win. **The first time you met your future wife, Violet Raseboya, you were at a regional cross-country meet, and she confused you for a boy in the locker room. From the outside, that could seem offensive. But you write about it as almost a point of pride. Why?** ​​If you know yourself, how you are, how you look, it is what it is. I always knew that I’m a different girl. So when someone will say, ‘Hey, you’re a boy,’” no, I will correct you. Because I know my identity. This is about self-identity. It’s about self-respect. It was always my responsibility to guide, to educate people, to say, “No, no, no. I am not a boy.” Yes, I may like shorts. I may like vests. I may be playing \[soccer\] with the guys. But I'm a woman. I love being me. God created me for purpose. And I am not going to question God because of mankind. As long as you don’t disrespect me, me and you will be in a good space. I was just like, to her, “If I was a guy, why would I be in this room?” She was a little bit embarrassed. I didn’t take it personally. We had a connection. We became friends. And from there, we start understanding one another. We become a unit. **For the first time, you talk in detail about the two gender-verification tests you had to undergo before your breakout performance at the 2009 World Championships: one in South Africa, before you left for worlds, and one in Berlin, the site of worlds, on what was supposed to be an off-day between the semifinals and final. What was the toughest part of that experience?** When you have nothing to hide, you won’t say it’s tough. I wanted to show these people, “Look, what you’re doing is wrong.” You’re not going to find anything. Only 'you have a high testosterone level. You are a woman who has no uterus, a woman with no fallopian tube, you are a woman with internal testicles.'” Publicizing this, they’ve done me a favor. You’re educating people about differences in a human being. That was not humiliating. What was humiliating was how they treated me. **What about the treatment was humiliating?** The language they used to describe me was a humiliation. Telling me I’m not a woman, I’m [a man](https://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/20/sports/20runner.html). She might [not be woman enough. ](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2009-09-11/semenya-maybe-not-100pc-a-woman/1424994)That’s disrespect. You can’t talk about someone like that. **Read More:** [_An Olympic Runner Is Asking You–on Her Due Date–to Stop Judging Pregnant Women_](https://time.com/6259943/elle-purrier-st-pierre-pregnant-olympics/) **After results from the testing were leaked, you write that “it was as if the entirety of humanity had discovered some kind of alien that looked like them but wasn’t them had been living amongst them.” What were you thinking and feeling at that moment?** You’re going to be very angry. You want to act. You want revenge. But at the end of the day, throughout those days, you realize that I’m not going to be like those people. Even if I get angry, it's not going to help me with anything. It helped me to be a better person. You start learning how to treat people with respect, start learning how to build relationships, how to fight for what's right, you start how to speak the truth. **You write about how your legal team made an agreement with the IAAF: the organization would allow you to compete if you took contraceptive pills to lower testosterone levels. In the book, you call this medical intervention “poison.” What was the most difficult moment while taking the medication?** You’re taking these things, and for what? They make you sick. They take the soul out of you. You're no longer living based on what you're supposed to be. There were times where you would be like, “Why am I even doing this?” Because there are no results out of it. It was dark. That's why I wrote in the book, if you're going to take that route, you must know you are ending your life. You are just booking your casket. **But you did manage to win the silver medal in the 800-m at the 2012 London Olympics; it was later** [**upgraded to gold**](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-doping-russia-savinova/savinova-stripped-of-london-games-800m-gold-for-doping-idUSKBN15P1EO) **after** **Mariya Savinova-Farnosova** **of Russia had her win stripped due to doping.** I did whatever I had to do to survive. That’s why it pisses them off. Because they couldn’t get me out. Yes, they took my happiness. They robbed me of my teenage life. But they did not rob my destiny. **Sprinter** [**Dutee Chand,**](https://time.com/collection/time-100-next-2019/5718891/dutee-chand/) **of India, successfully challenged the IAAF’s testosterone regulations in court, freeing you in 2015 to run without having to take drugs. How did that freedom feel?** It was a relief. I'm no longer going to be taking this medication. And I'll never take it again. It feels good to just be yourself, living life stress-free. My goal was to just get to my old self, to fix my head. Now I don't have to focus on how to balance hormones and all those things. What I need to focus on is to make sure that I train hard as much as I can, and make sure that I deliver as much as I can. What I'm going do now is just to make sure that everything I do is perfect. Anything I see in front of me, I crush. Because you have to understand that I've wasted five years. Now I’m going to regain my five years. **You won 800-m gold at the 2016 Rio Olympics. But, as you write, “the chatter about the 800-m final was brutal.” The other members of the all-Black, all-African podium—silver medalist Francine Niyonsaba of Burundi and bronze medalist Margaret Nyairera Wambui of Kenya also had DSD and produced high testosterone. Hours before the race, IAAF president Sebastian Coe** [**talked about wanting to reinstate testosterone regulations**](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/21/caster-semenya-wins-gold-but-faces-scrutiny)**. The fifth-place finisher, Poland’s Joanna Jozwik, said she** [**felt "like a silver medalist”**](https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/olympics/rio-2016-joanna-jozwik-caster-semenya-800m-hyperandrogenism-a7203731.html) **and said she was glad to be the “second white” to cross the line. Sixth-place finisher Lynsey Sharp of Great Britain, who’s also white, said she was** [**relying on "people at the top"**](https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/21/lynsey-sharp-caster-semenya-rio-2016-olympics) **to resolve the “issue.” What disappointed you about all this talk and reaction?** It disappoints because when you face me, everything is good. You laugh with me, we’re communicating. But then behind my back, you're going to be talking nonsense? It became a racial situation. Followed by discrimination, then disrespect. Where is the sportsmanship? It shows that the leadership in world athletics have done well to separate women from women. To make sure that we, as women, hate one another. They’re not building women’s sports. They’re teaching people how to discriminate, how to be racist. But the principle of sports is to say no to racism, so say no to discrimination. And it confuses me, when you are a leader, you come in, you want to build a sport, but you're destroying it. **In 2018, the IAAF introduced new regulations, requiring athletes with DSDs competing in the 400-m, 800-m, 1,500-m races to lower testosterone, via contraceptive use or other medical intervention, to below 5 nmol/liter for a continuous period of at least six months in order to compete. You fought this ruling in court, and in documents the IAAF referred to you as “biologically male.” Why did that upset you?** What do they know about biology? You don’t disrespect someone to that extent. When they say I am born a man, what do they mean about that? Are you saying that because I don’t have a uterus? Because I don’t have a fallopian tube? Because of my internal testicles? You say I’m a man. But I don’t have a dick. When you’re disrespectful to that extent, I can be disrespectful. For example, and I’ll say the name, Sebastian \[Coe\], if he has small balls, does it make him a lesser man? No. If his sex drive is low, does it make him less of a man? You don’t need to prove a point in court by disrespecting people. I'm not a man. I'll never be a man. When it comes to situations like this, these are sensitive issues. You're not going to tell a woman that she is born a man. Having those internal testicles doesn’t make me a man. **Here in America, legislators have passed laws in recent years banning transgender athletes—particularly transgender girls—from participating on sports teams consistent with their gender identity. Just to be clear: you are not transgender. But I’m curious if you’ve been following this issue, which has become a hot-button political topic in the U.S., and if you have any thoughts about it.** I think it would be unfair for me to answer that. First of all, I don't have a problem with transgender family. I love them. I'm about diversity and inclusivity. When it comes to laws, I'm not in the state to comment because I've got no idea or no knowledge about laws. Look, I believe anyone has got the right to sports. It will be unfair speaking on behalf of the trans family, because I don't know how it feels to be trans. And they don’t know how it feels to be a different woman \[like\] I am. For me, I don’t care where you’re coming from, what you look like, what process you have done to be the person you are. At the end of the day, I respect each and every individual in the universe. **Do you respect their rights to be involved in sports?** I respect their rights to be involved in sports. At the end of the day, they are all human. I expect them to be respected as human. But in terms of making laws, I know nothing about governance. But personally, I love them. They're human like me. They’re different like me. I don't really have a problem with that. **After several legal setbacks, you took your fight to run without medical intervention to the** [**European Court of Human Rights**](https://time.com/5942286/caster-semenya-women-sports-european-court-human-rights/)**, which in July found that a Swiss court had failed to uphold human-rights norms despite “credible claims of discrimination.” While this ruling did not immediately change World Athletics regulations keeping you off the track, it does leave open the possibility of a different outcome down the road. Do you hope that the regulations could be overturned and you could be running in the Olympics, if not in Paris, then in Los Angeles in 2028?** I haven’t decided either way whether I’d run or not. For me, the hope is that such rulings are never made \[again\]. Human rights need to be considered. People need to be treated with dignity and respect. I'm fulfilled if those young girls can go run, enjoy their youth, enjoy their teenage life, enjoy sport. As much you say sport is for all, at the moment it is not. **You write about how the World Athletics actions feel personal. You ran, for example, without testosterone limits in the 5,000-m at the World Championships last year in Eugene, Ore., finishing 13th in your heat. But just this past March, IAAF introduced new legislation requiring stricter testosterone minimums in DSD athletes, for all distances.** They talk about leveling the sport. There’s no f-cking way. Sports are never fair. If sports is fair, level men's sports. And come back and tell me. **Another important point you make is about how hard you’ve trained as an athlete. And you argue that if testosterone was that big a difference maker, you'd be running men’s times.** If I was a biological man, I’d be running 1:41\. \[In the 800-m, Kenya’s David Rushida holds the world record, at 1:40:91\. Semenya’s personal best time is 1:54:25.\] I don’t even have the power to stick to a man’s pace. If it was like that, I’ll agree. I’d say, "I get it, guys. I’ll run with men.” At the end of the day, it's fine. I played my role. I'm the best at what I do. I am the greatest of our generation. There's nothing \[Sebastian Coe\] can do about it. What I want him to do is a good thing. He must use his brains. Let the business run itself. We are entertainers. People want to see people with genetics, people who can do wonders. They don't care about you telling us, “she's not woman enough.” **Along these lines, I guess no one has ever said** [**Usain Bolt**](https://time.com/4436498/usain-bolt-has-never-run-a-mile/) **is “too much man.”** That’s what I’m saying. LeBron is not too much man. But Serena, when she goes good, she’s not good enough.[ She’s not woman enough.](https://www.businessinsider.com/serena-williams-responds-to-accusations-she-was-born-a-man-2018-5) I always have a problem with this issue. When \[Black\] women have to go through this. **Let’s talk about your future. You’ve opened up a track club in Pretoria with your wife. You have degrees in sports management and sports science. What do you want to accomplish in sports, following your running career?** Maybe I'll have my own Caster Semenya Sports Institute. It also depends on Violet’s plans and dreams. They need to align. My life is based on my family. But if we are able to do that, why not? **You have two daughters, a 2-year-old and a 4-year-old. Do you want them to run?** No. I don't want my kids to go through what I went through. Because as a woman, I know what they're going to go through. I would love them to explore different sports. Maybe they will find peace. Maybe they will find love. At the moment, they do swimming, which makes me so happy. I see future Olympic champions there. **That’s great. Is there anything we didn’t cover or I should have asked?** I’ll just say one more thing. It’s very, very important. Men should stop regulating women in sports. If we say we, as women, are very important, you also must give us opportunities to run organizations. ## Transcript We had many conversations about this in the last couple months, we were talking about tennis, we've talked about women's basketball, so this is not new. It's two or three weeks after a riveting, Women's World Cup. And we're not talking about Spain's on-field performance, which we will today, but the reason we're having this discussion has a scandal open, explosive worldwide story, happened. And what happened for those who haven't really caught up to it? I'm after Spain, won the World Cup. Louis Ruby Alice be head of the Spanish Federation kissed Jenny hermoso on the podium in an unwanted kiss. He disputes that every for the rest of the world seems to think otherwise so maybe you can just walk us through what happened in that moment and what has been the general responds to it. I would love to but to your earlier point, I think what is really important here and what is deeply, upset it, right? Is that we are not talking about how Dominic, an unbelievable Spain was. So forgive me for one moment for letting this man, take away this moment, which was extraordinary for this team. This is a Spanish team that has only been in the World Cup three times, right? Which means that we are starting off in a place where Spain is An underdog, right? We are looking at a debutante Team, new and building program that is built off. What men's soccer football was in Spain. So for these women to put themselves together under scrutiny because there was controversy going into the World Cup and to put together the performance that they did is unbelievable. And so I think what's lost in all this and what really upsets me and and it's something I hear over and over again from the players is that they didn't get that moment. It was truly robbed from them, just the beautiful execution of soccer and doing something that is extraordinary. This was the toughest World Cup we've ever had and they talented. And all we want to talk about is one man and his inexcusable behavior and Glennon Doyle posted something that I thought was beyond insightful right? It's not that they are questioning. And they I mean the patriarchal society it's not that they are questioning that it happened. It's that they don't think anything is wrong with it and I think that that is completely emblematic of the problem, right? It's it's the same thing. We heard from the 99 or switched was the 1999 soccer team, which sort of blew the lid off women's soccer, not just in this country but around the world. And it's this idea that you should just be grateful that you're here, right? You should just be grateful that we let you play soccer. You should be grateful that we give you these nice uniforms. You should be grateful that we give you sponsors, right? This is a whole ecosystem. This isn't just the Federation. And as a follower of of women's sports, And as somebody who you don't do the documentary on the US team in his talk to players repeatedly over the last month. Is it frustrating it strikes me from the outside and as an observer as being frustrating that women have to take on these burdens. So for example in the u.s. gymnastics sexual assaults, Larry Nassar Scandal, these are excellent athletes and Simone biles, and others had this gold medal-winning performance and then it we're dealing with this horrible, horrible sexual, predatory case, that that dominated the news on the US, soccer team that won in 2019, not only have to perform on the field, they have to withstand a verbal haranguing from the president of the United States and have to sue their Federation for Equal Pay. So they couldn't just shine in the athletic moment and now we're talkin about Spain. This team, as you mentioned that, Has come out of nowhere. That represents the sea change in women's soccer where the US was ahead of the game for so long. And then finally, the European men's superpowers, England, Spain Germany's I've caught up at 5 figured out all. This is worth investing in is like is enough is enough? What has to change? Are we going to keep seeing this? What's going on here? I think a lot about what does right of like, how much of a burden do we need to carry? And she and others have sort of talked a lot about this idea of double duty, right? We have to be outstanding on the field and we also have to fight for what's right? Like for Generations. We've seen Sports on the front line of progress and I think women's sports has been one of these places where we've seen this right. But unfortunately, the way that these systems are built is on these very patriarchal beliefs, right? Like we see, All of these federation's that are run and built by men, right? And so, when you don't necessarily have women at the seat of the table, it is much harder to climb to this place of equality, right? And so, I think what we're seeing right now with Spain is emblematic of what has been happening in soccer for a very long time. We are. We are always fighting for justice, like little Oz and Alex Morgan. She said if Spain hadn't one, no one would be talking about this. And I think that that is so true. Think about what is happening with Studebaker coach, and the abuse allegation that the World Cup think about what is happening in these deeply, deeply misogynistic countries. And by the way, it's not just saying it's a lots of them, right? Including on our home soil. So, what we're seeing in front of the cameras, is the tip of the ice, And you mentioned talking to Alex and reaction. You know, I spoke to Sophia Smith recently For an upcoming project and, and you know, Sophia Smith Anita young u.s. Phenom to deal with missing a penalty kick, that would have propelled the United States into the quarter-finals, a heartbreaking moment and you bring it up with her delicately and cheese has a right answer. She's like, it's the stinks, not one, we wanted, but I want inspire people by showing that we can bounce back from low moment. So she's not mad that it comes up. She's dealing with it head-on, but she's also dealing with the reaction to this, and you have asked her about it, right? And she said, a lot of the same things that we've been talking about, but I'm interested in kind of digging a little deeper on the players. Used, talk to you mention, Alex, Alex Morgan, you talk to other players for this upcoming project, what are the women soccer players? The athletes themselves, saying about this Many of them right after. I mean Tobin Heath was out there. Carli Lloyd was out there. Christen press was out there, Alex, Megan, Lindsey her Aunt Rose, Lavelle like the Parade of people that are standing with Jenny. I think really shows that they are not surprised. If I hate, this is not a surprise from from female athletes that this is sort of how this goes. I think that there is a deep deep sadness that the same team was robbed of a celebration. And that in the moment that we should have been talking about every single one of them, we do the word that we are saying more than anything. Is Ruby all is, right? And you brought him to nastics before not something that I think we all battled with as well with like why is Larry Nassar? His name said all the time. But not necessarily is he Phenom gymnast that swept Olympics after Olympics, after Olympics. And I think that these players are Binding together to form, a sort of movement, that is harder to break than one individual. And that's why I actually love about women sports, is that they understand that this is larger than the game, right? They understand that your teammates sometimes your enemies sometimes, but we are on one giant mission for equality and that is always stronger. As a unit is getting, she's getting it from all quarters. Can you see this guy ever coming back? I mean I mean it's a yes and that's why I thought your question would be and why I think Ruby Alice and this is my opinion completely. The key firmly believes that he had the right To do what he did in front of millions of people to a woman who did not consent to it, because he thought he is a position of power, and he gives them the opportunity to put on this uniform and whatever it is that he wants to do with them, is his right? And I think that, that is where this boils down, right? So it's just the kids. All I was just excited. Oh, I'm the Federation President, right? These are all, like, I think we saw it when he came to this press conference and he we all expect him to resign. He is going to do the right thing. This is unacceptable and he stands up there and he says, I will not resign. He does not think he did anything wrong in that crazy moment of defiance and maybe not that crazy because you're up cuz of the reason you're talking about that, there's power hungry men running these Sports Federation to talk about false feminism. What What what do you think he meant by that and what's your response to that? I think there is an army of men, right? If you want to like go very big Larry Harvey Weinstein, right? If you want to take it in a very small, oh, I should be able to say something to women in a, in a work environment, right? It doesn't matter if it's a micro aggression, or if it is a blatant rate, right? I think that there was this sense, right? That men can do whatever they want. They think that we are now living in this overly sensitive world, right? Where things that we're okay for Generations are now not okay because we are hypersensitive not that they are doing something wrong, right? And so I think this is very misogynistic view that were equally we have all the things but like don't be so sensitive. All I did was celebrate, like, all I did was was asked her if she wanted to come into a hotel room, you know, like, I'm so I deeply believe that people like this. Do you think that women or the court of public opinion are at fault? God forbid, they be at fault and I got the sense we watching believe I'm saying this but re-watching the head of the Spanish Federation grabbing his crotch next to Spanish royalty. I got this sent. It was almost to The coach for a builder. Again, this is an opinion, but the message I took from that was screw all the women and the Spanish players who want to build a fire. We just won this thing. We just want to think we're right there on. And that was kind of this, this little crotch, grab looks like a f. You look what we did. Look what we did and I think it's parked by this mindset, the environment that we supposedly in, where everyone's too sensitive, and I'm sure that sense of we did. It carried over to the victory ceremony, where he's just like, We did it. I'm going to kiss you like, where this is crazy, would do it. If I don't know, it's like a room. Talk is a sports, which to go outside Society. Again, remember how long ago was it now six years ago? Almost eight years ago, the locker room talk with Donald Trump and the things he said about women and how we dismissed it as locker room, talk and that and we haven't the world hasn't learned from that. It seems over the last 8 years because I think when you think, even if you think about the World Cup, right? We made this like very strategic choice in our dock to say the World Cup. Not the Women's World Cup. This is the World Cup secondary in Sports women's sports, always hold a second candle space to men's, right? Even when we're talking about equal pay in 2019, which we did win. But only I think I think because we won the 2019 World Cup and we said, now you have two and I have to leave one. For the dance team is 10 defense. Team is like barely getting out of the group stage, there's no more argument for. That's right, we went to in a row. I think we still hold a secondary space to that, right? Because are you feeling seats? Meanwhile, Millions upon millions of people watch This World Cup this summer. We're getting higher numbers than we ever seen. Look at what happened in the final four. Just recently Nots the women's final four in the final four will be sold out seats and Arenas that were predominantly held only for men. So I think we've seen over and over that if you give women in inch we will take it and we will run with it and we can fill stadiums and we can get big number sponsors and we can do all of these things. But because a lot of these Patriarchal ecosystems still exist at the top. They still hold the power. And it's much much harder to break through. And so that's where this double duty will always well on a ways, but will always be evident. I think people lost the plot on this world cup. The US women have held a torch for so long because thankfully we had Title Nine, right? Thankfully we had the 99 or Sprite European system are now catching up because they have better infrastructure is because of men's leagues, right? So it's very simple to create Manchester United women. It's very simple to create Chelsea women, right? Not the same way that we had to build our league from scratch here, right? But I think where we lost the plot is that without the US team, raging war on our Federation right before World Cup. And then literally winning in the fashion that they did and winning equal. Pay has Started a fire that is burning through these federation's, that is burning through these Spanish women saying, you know what, they did it I want to do it because I'm tired of dealing with the same issues over and over and over. And I think it gave everybody a little bit more courage that We can fight and we can win and now we're coming for you. This is a new generation of soccer that I think is going to be wildly entertaining, and fearless. Right. And that's what we're seeing from Spain. That's what we saw from the US. That's what we saw out of Canada before the tournament started. I think that there is no longer, this feeling of women's sports, can just go along for the ride. I think that's a great place to end its fearless, and we're going to see with this whole situation going on Spain. I anticipate a Fearless fight, I anticipate Ruby, Ellis eventually being pushed off the world stage, and a better Soccer World going forward. Maybe that's probably a dash, but I hope that's what you could hope for, and a safer one, the women deserve it, they really, really do. ```json [{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","@id":"https://time.com/6330414/caster-semenya-race-to-be-myself-interview/","mainEntityOfPage":{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https://time.com/6330414/caster-semenya-race-to-be-myself-interview/"},"headline":"Caster Semenya Isn't Just Fighting for Herself","datePublished":"2023-11-02T19:02:50.000Z","dateModified":"2026-08-04T07:50:47.145Z","description":"\"It’s a reminder to those out there who feel rejected that they belong.\"","url":"https://time.com/6330414/caster-semenya-race-to-be-myself-interview/","keywords":["Books","society-team"],"thumbnailUrl":"https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt813c3ffc2af2a96c/698a41e0457a529b0ad681bc/GettyImages-1409977483.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=1200:675&height=675","author":[{"@type":"Person","name":"Sean Gregory","jobTitle":"Senior Correspondent","url":"https://time.com/author/sean-gregory/"}],"articleSection":"Sports","image":[{"@type":"ImageObject","url":"https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt813c3ffc2af2a96c/698a41e0457a529b0ad681bc/GettyImages-1409977483.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=1200:675&height=675","width":1200,"height":675,"headline":"World Athletics Championships Oregon22 - Day Six","caption":"World Athletics Championships Oregon22 - Day Six","creditText":"Andy Lyons— World Athletics/Getty Images","representativeOfPage":true}],"publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"Time","url":"https://time.com/","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","url":"https://time.com/images/logo.png","width":528,"height":156},"foundingDate":"March 3, 1923","sameAs":["https://www.facebook.com/time","https://www.instagram.com/time/?hl=en","https://twitter.com/time","https://www.pinterest.com/timemagazine"]}},{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"BreadcrumbList","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"item":{"@id":"/section/sports/","name":"Sports"}},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"item":{"@id":"/tag/books/","name":"Books"}},{"@type":"ListItem","position":3,"item":{"@id":"https://time.com/6330414/caster-semenya-race-to-be-myself-interview/","name":"Caster Semenya Isn't Just Fighting for Herself"}}]},{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"VideoObject","name":"Spain's World Cup Win is a Reminder of How Women's Sports are Still Fighting for Progress","description":"TIME's Rebecca Gitlitz and Sean Gregory discuss Spain's World Cup win and how women athletes continue to be underrepresented changemakers.","thumbnailUrl":"https://cdn.jwplayer.com/v2/media/CqQWlhmB/poster.jpg?width=720","uploadDate":"2023-09-12T18:24:10.000Z","contentUrl":"https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/CqQWlhmB.m3u8","embedUrl":"https://time.com/6330414/caster-semenya-race-to-be-myself-interview/","duration":"PT17M3S","potentialAction":{"@type":"SeekToAction","target":"https://time.com/6330414/caster-semenya-race-to-be-myself-interview/?jw_start={seek_to_second_number}","startOffset-input":"required name=seek_to_second_number"}}] ```