--- title: How We Interviewed North Koreans Working in China description: Behind the scenes of an investigation into North Koreans working in China seafood plant. canonical: https://time.com/6836540/north-koreans-working-in-china-seafood-plants/ author: Ian Urbina article:opinion: true article:content_tier: free article:published_time: 2024-03-01T20:42:00.000Z article:modified_time: 2026-08-04T07:50:32.498Z article:section: Ideas og:title: How We Interviewed North Koreans Working in China og:description: Behind the scenes of an investigation into North Koreans working in China seafood plant. og:url: https://time.com/6836540/north-koreans-working-in-china-seafood-plants/ og:site_name: TIME og:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt3f596986dd0620a9/698a4907db298730a126a458/signal-2023-09-21-153926-SCRUBBED.jpeg?branch=production&width=800&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 og:image:width: 800 og:image:height: 450 og:image:alt: Workers sort seafood at Dandong Taifeng og:type: article twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: How We Interviewed North Koreans Working in China twitter:description: Behind the scenes of an investigation into North Koreans working in China seafood plant. twitter:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt3f596986dd0620a9/698a4907db298730a126a458/signal-2023-09-21-153926-SCRUBBED.jpeg?branch=production&width=800&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 ---  # How We Interviewed North Koreans Working in China > Sponsored content. 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Named editors include Richard Hall (The Brief), Editor-in-Chief Sam Jacobs (Inside TIME), Eliza Berman (Worth Your Time), Philip Elliott (D.C. Brief), Justin Worland (Future Proof) and Harry Booth (In the Loop). Health Matters is written by TIME's health desk. #### How do I sign up for a TIME newsletter? Go to time.com/newsletters, choose the newsletters you want and enter your email address. There is no cost and no subscription requirement. ## Video: Outlaw Ocean: The North Koreans Behind the World's Seafood [Watch (HLS stream): Outlaw Ocean: The North Koreans Behind the World's Seafood](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/I6cY3456.m3u8) (11:51)  _Published 2024-02-27. An investigation from The Outlaw Ocean Project revealed that fifteen Chiese seafood-processing plants together seem to have used more than a thousand North Korean workers since 2017. Ten of these plants have, in the same timeframe, cumulatively shipped more than 120,000 tons of seafood to more than seventy American importers, which supplied grocery stores including Walmart, Giant, ShopRite, and Weee! This seafood also went to importers that sent the products to restaurant chains including McDonald’s and Sysco — which supplies nearly half a million restaurants, as well as U.S. public schools, military bases and the U.S. Congress — and to an importer who supplies the cafeterias of the E.U. Parliament._ by [Ian Urbina](https://time.com/author/ian-urbina/) ## Ian Urbina Mar 1, 2024 8:42 PM UTC  In late 2023, one of the team’s investigators visited a seafood processing plant in northeastern China called Dandong Taifeng, which supplies tens of thousands of tons of seafood to grocery stores in the U.S. and other countries. The investigator found one hundred-fifty North Koreans working on the processing floor. In late 2023, one of the team’s investigators visited a seafood processing plant in northeastern China called Dandong Taifeng, which supplies tens of thousands of tons of seafood to grocery stores in the U.S. and other countries. The investigator found one hundred-fifty North Koreans working on the processing floor. Credit: © The Outlaw Ocean Project, Late 2023 by [Ian Urbina](https://time.com/author/ian-urbina/) ## Ian Urbina Mar 1, 2024 8:42 PM UTC Perhaps the only thing tougher than interviewing workers in China about human rights is doing the same in North Korea. Still, it seemed worth trying because it might shed new light on the experiences of thousands of relatively invisible people who, as it turns out, provide much of the seafood consumed in the U.S. and Europe. What we found was chilling: women held captive in processing plants in China, dispatched there by the North Korean government, only to face violence, wage theft and rampant sexual abuse. And much of the seafood coming from these plants supplies major American companies, which is a violation of U.N. sanctions and the 2017 U.S. Countering America’s Adversaries Through Sanctions Act, which established a “rebuttable presumption” categorizing work by North Koreans as forced labor unless proven otherwise, and levying fines on companies that import goods tied to these workers. An [investigation from The Outlaw Ocean Project](https://www.theoutlawocean.com/investigations/china-the-superpower-of-seafood/the-north-koreans-behind-global-seafood/) revealed that fifteen seafood-processing plants together seem to have used more than a thousand North Korean workers since 2017\. Ten of these plants have, in the same timeframe, cumulatively shipped more than 120,000 tons of seafood to more than seventy American importers, which supplied grocery stores including Walmart, Giant, ShopRite, and Weee! This seafood also went to importers that sent the products to restaurant chains including McDonald’s and Sysco—which supplies nearly half a million restaurants, as well as U.S. public schools, military bases and the U.S. Congress—and to an importer who supplies the cafeterias of the E.U. Parliament. Such revelations were tough to land because Western journalists are restricted in China and barred from entering North Korea, whose citizens are prohibited from talking freely to reporters. In late 2023, I set out to find ways around these obstacles. I hired a team of investigators in South Korea who help new organizations report on North Korea. The investigators have contacts across the border whom they employ to get information out of the country. The investigators and their contacts worked to compile a list of two dozen North Koreans who had been dispatched to China, most of whom have since returned home; the workers and managers were a range of ages, came from a variety of regions in the country, and had worked at half a dozen different Chinese factories. The investigator’s contacts met with the workers in secret, often in open fields or on the street, where it is tougher for security agents to listen in on conversations. The workers were told that their responses would be shared publicly by a U.S. media outlet. They faced legitimate risk; if they were caught, experts told me, they could be executed. But they agreed to talk because they want the world to know what happens to them in China. The North Korean contacts transcribed their answers by hand, and then sent photos of the questionnaires, using encrypted communication channels, to the investigators, who sent them to me. Because of these layers of protection, it is impossible to fully verify what was said. But the responses were vetted by experts to make sure that they line up with what is known about the program, and with other interviews of North Korean defectors. The investigators recently checked in on the interviewers and interviewees, and everyone was safe. ## Transcript 2023 was a highly successful year for Dong Yang January food the seafood processing company based in dandong. China opened a large new plant at his compound in this Chinese City that sits along the North Korean border the company doubled the amount of squid that it exported to the United States in celebration of its success Jen. We threw a huge party at annual meeting with dancers fireworks in a high-tech light show in a video of that celebration the company bragged about how it was certified as a good act by Marine Stewardship Council and other Western auditing firms. The problem though. Is that a crucial reason for January success was its widespread use of cheap North Korean labor? Then we was part of a much bigger state-run partnership between China and North Korea where workers are selected by the North Korean government and exported across the border to work in Chinese seafood plants. This is a huge problem because it violates very clear and strict un sanctions and US law prohibiting the use of North Korean workers in this very fashion. In 2017 after North Korea test of the series of nuclear and ballistic missile United Nations security Council imposed a series of sanctions. These sanctions made it illegal for foreign companies to use imported North Korean workers on the grounds that their labor was coerced and that their salaries were funding the regime the UN Security Council on which China is a member voted unanimously in favor of the sanctions never lost. China has consistently violated the sanctions. It signed importing thousands of North Korean workers to Seafood plants and the US and Europe are complicit because they buy huge volumes of seafood coming from these very plants. This year a team of investigators night set out to document the use of North Korean labor in China's growing Seafood industry. We collected Leaf government documents company promotional materials satellite imagery online forms and local news reports. We reviewed hundreds of cell phone video shot inside or near the seafood plants that were published on Chinese social media. These materials opened a window onto a hidden world that China has tried to keep Secret in some instances. The presence of North Koreans that Chinese plants was explicitly discussed in the footage or in the comments. We had experts review the footage for North Korean accent language usage and other cultural markers. Investigative reporting in China is almost impossible for Western journalist. So we sent Chinese investigators to visit factories to talk to workers and to take footage of production lines. What we found is that North Korean workers are tied too much of the sea food consumed in Europe and the US in particular we found at least 15 large seafood processing plants in China have used over a thousand North Korean workers. These plants have shipped more than 120,000 tons of clams salted Pollock fillets squid and other Seafood in more than 70 importers in the United States, since the sanctions went into effect and those importers shift too. Many of the biggest grocery stores in the world, including Walmart ShopRite, and we they also Supply major restaurant chains like McDonald's and Cisco, which is the largest food distributor on the Planet Servicing. materials in the US Congress on American military bases and in public schools We reached out to these restaurants and grocery stores, but most declined to comment typically such companies rely on social audits to ensure that there is no forced labor at their plants are in their supply chains, but experts including in the US government have concluded that these audits are not to be trusted because they don't ask the right questions and particularly in China. They don't work because of government intimidation and the inability to do on announce spot checks or to speak openly about human rights or labor concerns China officially denies that North Korean workers are in the country and yet the presence of these workers does not go unnoticed by locals. Still the Chinese government tries hard to conceal its use of North Korean workers. In the weeks after my team's investigators visited several seafood processing plants looking for North Koreans local Chinese security officials publicly distributed pamphlets with a Stern warning the pamphlet said quote people who make use of the special geographical proximity of the Border City to North Korea and the status of a Chinese citizen to contact North Korean workers or who get too close to the work places of North Korean workers will be treated as engaging in Espionage activities and danger in National Security and be punished severely and quote. The pamphlets also said that residents working with foreign media would face charges under the Auntie Espionage Act. Jobs in China are highly coveted by North Koreans because they often come with contract promising a monthly salary of $270 compared to the $3 per month paid for doing similar work in Eritrea. However, workers typically see less than 10% of the salary that they're promised the bulk of their pay is sent to the North Korean government as loyalty payments after additional deductions for food water electricity Heating and the workers dormitories. What is laughed is often less than $30 per month. The North Korean government carefully selects which workers will be sent to factories and then dong and elsewhere in China. If a worker has a family member who has ever attempted defection. They're automatically disqualified. The process is typically overseen by Room 39 secretive agency of the North Korean government that oversees activities such as sending assassins abroad money laundering weapons purchases and cyber-attacks workers often have to sign two or three-year contract after they arrived in China managers confiscate their passport, if workers attempt to escape or complain to people outside the plants their families at home can face reprisals from the government. The work itself is Relentless shifts at the seafood plans run 14 to 16 hours workers receive up to one day off for a month and few if any holidays are sick days. And seafood plants the women sleep in bunk beds in lock dormitories. Sometimes with 30 people to a room workers are forbidden from tuning into local TV or radio and I'm leaving Factory grounds on the company. Occasionally. They are allowed to socialize but almost always within the grounds of the processing plant. In a video posted on social media of North Korean workers playing volleyball one of you are commented quote they have been brainwashed and they don't know how good the outside world is and quote. To understand conditions at the plants. I hired investigators to interview women in North Korea who previously worked and seafood processing in China. I wrote a list of questions and these investigators hand-delivered the questionnaires to the women after these workers were at their replies investigators took pictures of their answers and sent them to me electronically. Most of these workers are women and their responses to me or Stark. Describe loneliness violence and a crushing sense of captivity. They also describe a widespread pattern of sexual abuse. Among the 20 female North Korean Seafood workers interviewed all but three said they had faced sexual assault. During the pandemic China closed its borders and many North Korean workers found themselves trapped far away from home off of their workplaces shut down their incomes lost North Korean workers often have to take loans from Loan Sharks to pay bribes to government officials and Labour Brokers to secure a job in China when workers were unable to pay back those loans North can loan sharks and groups of local thugs to the homes of workers relatives to intimidate them the pressure of debt sexual violence and loneliness let some of these workers to take drastic measures for sample in 2023 to North Korean women at textile plants committed suicide. Pandemic restrictions in China were eased in late 2023 the sino-korean Friendship bridge that links and all to the North Korean city of shin. We Jus we opened and many workers were allowed to go home. When the workers returned to North Korea, they are interrogated on every aspect of how they spend each day who they worked with and the behavior of their fellow workers. In the letters the North Korean women wrote to me. They said they were glad to have made money, but they were haunted by The Experience, especially the sexual abuse. In the start of 2020 for the Chinese and North Korean government began negotiations about the next wave of workers to be dispatched to Chinese seafood factors sources told me the price for each worker had gone up North Korean labor Brokers plan to add an extra $130 fee per worker. Why because this is a market supply and demand and it turns out the Chinese seafood industry is heavily dependent on cheap North Korean labor for its growing Global Production. 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