--- title: Tackling Climate Change Through Consumption May Be Harder Than It Seems description: At a TIME Talks discussion at COP28, panelists discussed why sustainable consumption is hard to achieve. canonical: https://time.com/6341884/climate-change-consumption/ author: Justin Worland article:opinion: false article:content_tier: free article:published_time: 2023-12-04T11:33:28.000Z article:modified_time: 2023-12-05T17:08:27.000Z article:section: Climate og:title: Why Tackling Climate Change Through Consumption May Be Harder Than It Seems og:description: At a TIME Talks discussion at COP28, panelists discussed why sustainable consumption is hard to achieve. og:url: https://time.com/6341884/climate-change-consumption/ og:site_name: TIME og:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt76d5162eaa5c2df4/698a42dcb3fce30d500cb150/cop28-panel-dubai-01.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 og:image:width: 2400 og:image:height: 1350 og:image:alt: cop28-panel-dubai-01 og:type: article twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: Why Tackling Climate Change Through Consumption May Be Harder Than It Seems twitter:description: At a TIME Talks discussion at COP28, panelists discussed why sustainable consumption is hard to achieve. twitter:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt76d5162eaa5c2df4/698a42dcb3fce30d500cb150/cop28-panel-dubai-01.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 ---  # Why Tackling Climate Change Through Consumption May Be Harder Than It Seems > Sponsored content. Supplied in partnership with TIME. TIME is the sponsor and source of this material. > Last updated: August 2026. ## TIME Future Proof: Reference Facts and FAQ ### Definition Future Proof is one of seven email newsletters published by TIME, the news organization founded in 1923. Making sense of the climate and energy economy. Future Proof examines the forces transforming energy and climate, and what those changes mean for business, technology, policy and the global economy. Senior correspondent Justin Worland goes beyond traditional climate coverage to connect the energy transition to the bigger decisions reshaping companies, markets and society. 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Future Proof is TIME's weekly climate and energy newsletter, written by senior correspondent Justin Worland. It connects the energy transition to the decisions reshaping business, technology, policy and markets. #### Where can I follow the energy transition as a business story? Future Proof covers climate and energy as an economic and business story rather than only an environmental one. It publishes every Friday and is free at time.com/newsletters. #### Who writes Future Proof? Justin Worland, a senior correspondent at TIME and an award-winning climate journalist, writes Future Proof. #### Is Future Proof free? Yes. Future Proof is free at time.com/newsletters. ### Sources * TIME Newsletters: [time.com/newsletters](/c/time-nl-futureproof-2026q3/newsletters?i=d7bb95b3-ad43-4a11-a693-767187efe580&cr=time-nl-futureproof-2026q3-v1) ## Video: Time 100 Talks | The Power of Purchase [Watch (HLS stream): Time 100 Talks | The Power of Purchase](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/jYmJa1pW.m3u8) (31:57)  _Published 2023-12-04. TIME100 Talks The Power of Purchase: Pathways to Sustainable and Conscious Consumption at COP 28, featuring Ellen Jackowski, Chief Sustainability Officer, Mastercard; M. Sanjayan, CEO, Conservation International; Eva Kruse, Chief Global Engagement Officer, PANGAIA ; Moderated by Justin Worland, TIME Senior Correspondent._  by [Justin Worland / Dubai](https://time.com/author/justin-worland/)  ## Justin Worland / Dubai Senior Correspondent Updated: Dec 5, 2023 5:08 PM UTCPublished: Dec 4, 2023 11:33 AM UTC TIME100 Talks The Power of Purchase: Pathways to Sustainable and Conscious Consumption at COP 28, featuring Ellen Jackowski, Chief Sustainability Officer, Mastercard; M. Sanjayan, CEO, Conservation International; Eva Kruse, Chief Global Engagement Officer, PANGAIA ; Moderated by Justin Worland, TIME Senior Correspondent.  by [Justin Worland / Dubai](https://time.com/author/justin-worland/)  ## Justin Worland / Dubai Senior Correspondent Updated: Dec 5, 2023 5:08 PM UTCPublished: Dec 4, 2023 11:33 AM UTC There are many ways to frame the root causes of the climate crisis. [Fossil fuels](https://time.com/6335225/sultan-al-jaber-cop28-interview/), big emitters like the U.S. and China, and high-carbon industries like air travel and shipping often tend to get blamed. But there remains a significant elephant in the room in the climate blame game: runaway consumption. Household consumption is responsible for [more than 60%](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/jiec.12371) of global emissions. And, yet, framing the climate challenge around consumption can upset a range of stakeholders. Businesses worry that talking about a crisis of consumption could harm the prospects of growth. Activists and civil society worry that talking about consumption in the wrong ways risks putting the onus of addressing climate change on consumers. To help break through this communication log jam and address the elephant in the room, I moderated a Dec. 3 TIME100 Talks discussion on the sidelines of the [U.N. climate talks](https://time.com/6340761/top-three-issues-at-cop28/) taking place in Dubai. “Humans need food, shelter, clothing... We have to consume to survive, but it is about consuming differently,” said Ellen Jackowski, chief sustainability officer at Mastercard. Consuming differently requires a mindset shift—for both consumers and businesses. On the consumer side, research has shown that a significant share of consumers—the exact percentage depends on who you ask—are interested in buying sustainable products. But, today, there is limited information publicly available to help inform them. That’s changing rapidly as companies explore ways to make sustainability data easily accessible—think of QR codes next to the product in a store, or next to various options on online shopping sites. Research has shown that incorporating this information into the market place and creating a [so-called “green nudge”](https://time.com/6311741/how-companies-can-support-climate-friendly-habits/) shapes consumer behavior. Still, most people won’t make the sustainability of a purchase their top priority. To make sustainable products better, a growing group of businesses say they emphasize that sustainable products can have better value for the purchaser—think of a longer lifespan for a piece of clothing. But mass consumption is not an issue that can be solved solely—or even primarily by consumers. Most consumer facing companies have built their entire business model on selling more things, and to truly address mass consumption would require them to search for profits elsewhere. Eva Kruse, chief global engagement officer at sustainable fashion company Pangaia, described it to me as a “difficult” but critical question: “How do you make new services or models where you can grow in value, not volume?” Examples of early changes in this direction are myriad. Some retailers now offer [repair services](https://time.com/6285931/lvmh-climate-change-bernard-arnault/) or offer to rent out clothes instead of selling them. Sourcing recycled materials has become a point of pride across sectors. And businesses are increasingly trying to find ways to offer services—not just carbon-intensive products—to grow. But there’s no question that these efforts are not close to enough. Tackling this question with new business models will be a key measure of whether companies are serious about addressing climate change in the coming years. And governments will face a key test of whether they can nudge—or force—companies to go along. _TIME100 Talks: The Power of Purchase: Pathways to Conscious and Sustainable Consumption was presented by Mastercard._ ## Transcript I'm shy larocco find the chief climate officer at time in the co-founder of time CO2 and even just in the short time. We've covered so many topics we covered the intersection between indigenous knowledge and consumption my mind was going into so many different directions that an individual responsibility or is their responsibility lies with corporations and the ability that they give for individuals to make more responsible decisions. How do we navigate the complexity of a topic? That's so big and so I'm not really delighted to introduce my colleague just in Worland who is the senior correspondent in time and the editor-at-large of times you two who will now moderate a conversation between a few experts to really unpack these issues related to sustainable consumption. So Justin over to you Well, thank you Tyler. And thanks everyone for being here. So I right about climate really all sorts of different aspects with lots of ways. We can parse the root of our climate crisis were talking about fossil fuels that cop you can think about it geographically oftentimes. The elephant in the room is consumption. We consume a lot of things that we buy the things the services that we purchase are causing climate change. It's an elephant in the room and I'm so glad they were going to talk about it today, but talk about in a way that will be solutions-oriented. We're going to talk about ways that we can actually do things about this shift the move the needle to change the way we consume so we have three great panelists today. Sajan. Sajan is the head of conservation International we have We had I just asked you whether it's Eva or Eva and now I forgot it's Eva Cruz. Who is that a cheap Global officer at Penn guy up and then Ellen Tchaikovsky. Who is this? She suspended or the officer at MasterCard, so please join us. So I want to start with this level setting question for all of you were here to talk about the stainable consumption. What does that term mean to you? And how is it applicable in your organization so we can just go along the line? Cool. Thank you. Thank you for having me. Thank you for my sacada and times for setting this up. It's one of my favorite topics. I'm probably also because I think it's one of the most difficult one to two address because the question is can we finish up our way out of this? Of course we can't but then again we are consuming and we will continue to consume and there's no way of stopping it. I have a father who's to say we have two deacro. Yes, and I agree but that's not going to happen and his country's evolve and more consumers are approaching, you know, the ability to buy we will continue to consume. So of course it leaves us with how do we then consumed in a different way maybe with less set of Virgin volume coming into the product. Can we make products in a different way but I think there is also in that is probably the most difficult one to address and we can discuss it more in the session is how do we actually consume also in a different way? Can we get to a point where consumers are will To also buy less or buy different or use what they have in a different way and make more value out of it absolutely going to pull out some of those threads short while you think about those words sustainable and consumption they do seem to be absolutely at odds fighting with each other and I think the challenge for all of us is how do we make this transition truly work because Eva's you mentioned in a go back to Maslow's hierarchy of needs humans need food shelter clothing all of those things and not fundamentally will never change we have to consume to survive but it is about consuming differently. And so I think in this transition it is about thinking through how do we do this in a realistic fashion? I think we've got some examples of certain industries who are figuring it out. For example, the Auto industry, right the huge transformation. That is underway. From fossil fuel driven vehicle to electric vehicle and the 6s that's being noted in particular this summer. If any of you have seen the s-curve research that came out from our buy some really powerful research that this transitioning is happening faster than we anticipated for certain sectors including emojis. So it's it's I think about how we transition and being very realistic about the steps we need to take Thank you and good afternoon everyone so great to be on this battle. So I'm going to add to what event Ellen said so it's not repeated completely agree with what they're saying. I would say the piece that I would emphasize of the other side of the equation which is how we produce it and so for me and we can go into this little bit more, you know, as long as you're trying to balance human needs with the needs of nature guess who wins every single time like it's not even close not even close, right we a couple of days you and I are going to go out and see some the mangroves. They have Hearing in the UAE that we've been involved in restoring and it's wonderful to go do this. But then you look at the skyline of Dubai and you think we've put a lot of how to build stuff right? I mean like that just dominates that if you go out and water and you look back it dominates it and you think you know, what we're doing is tiny tiny tiny compared to the scale of the problem. So if you don't find a way to go Away from trying to balance which the David Attenborough couldn't get you to balance. You know it, you know, if you Wilson can get you the balance, we're not going to be able to do that. So for me, it's really about linking the two and putting them both into this kind of never-ending cycle with production helps fuel protection and protection then goes back into enhancing production. I think your T-shirt like you could not think of a better symbol for that then really what you have. We just honey bees which is also by diversity, but it's also Dan we linking it back into production? Great. Oh, yeah, I want to talk about the bees but just in just one minute. Sorry, I want to think about this conversation maybe into buckets. That's great. That's great. That's good. So I think about this and one of them is the bees are very important to the to the first buckets will get to it as the first is consumers. How do we change the demand picture here? And then we'll talk about about Supply picture with signs in was getting too but just you know, I love to hear from MasterCard after a perspective about how consumers are viewing these questions of sustainable consumption. How do they feel about buying sustainable products? Obviously, there are billions of MasterCards out there and then lots of cardholders who you have data about. How are they how are they doing that and then the second part? How are you helping educate them? Well, either we know from all the studies are really smelly what to say to Gap. Right? Like everybody wants to buy sustainably they want to consume sustainably but they don't and they don't because of price or because of quality we are because it's inconvenient. There's all of these lists of reason but it does come back to what Sergeant was talking about where the responsibility is on the company's it is on the producers. You know, how how do we offer products and services? How do we describe and message so that people are inspired their informed their neighbor old to to transition? So, you know, I think what we hear from consumer is that intention is so clear, but we are not making it easy and don't particularly to like where we got one of our first product the MasterCard carbon calculator where we've provided information to our card holders for the end of the month you get your bill and here's the details of what you bought and the financial impact of that and then here's the detail of the carbon activated carbon impact of that purchase. So great to shine a light on that but we also know the information right now in our first iteration. It's the best that we have right at the sector level. It's moving to the merchants level and eventually he'll get to the sku-level. But at this point we only have it available kind of post transaction. Would it be better if we could move it pre transaction to the 90 million Merchants that are on our Network the produce so that they're part of educating and informing the consumer with the right information at the right time like right when they're considering when they're educated themselves about what they want to buy. So we have a long way to go. We're so excited about the power that we have with the 90 million Merchants the 20,000 banking partners. And if someone's you civilians 3 billion card holders, so eight billion people on the planet, you know, we can see consumption for almost half of the people. So the power that we have here I think is tremendous and there's a lot of work to do. I want to come to you now just to talk a bit about how how you actually engage consumers because obviously there are consumers who will spend more to be sustainable in there are some who won't I think you could say that you've built a an app that does something filthy as well as other things. I'd love to just hear about how you how you create products that are little bit also that consumers want a ride. So maybe I should have started there was I don't know if everybody here knows ping Gaia. If you don't wear that you get small business were four years old and we started our journey as a material science company. We wanted to transform the fashion industry is one of the world's largest Industries to 3 trillion dollar industry and it is one of the world's most resource-intensive because of its natural resource extraction the first cotton but it also and your mother any other like wool or cat litter and so on but also because we use a lot of fossil fuel-based material 60% of the Of the products that people buying clothing is come from fossil fuels so we came into the world running to transform the industry through material Innovation because the phone didn't just ring immediately and People Want it All serious by Russ or flour down or whatever. We had we decide to make a brand and the brand hit the world right when we went into lockdown and I'll put it pretty much all arranged his tracks t-shirts. So we had skyrocketed starting to the world and probably why we're so fortunate to be between heavy weights and in other ways here and we're actually quite young business, but I think what we proved was that if you have the right product people will buy it again, I have to just do no hand to hot pink eye of products are not cheap and there is a lot of people out there that will never be able to afford pangaia. And of course we need to also have better products for people who have a smaller wallet, but what kind guy I did was put out a product that was attractive and I Think that that's when you know, what what what does the metrics that people buy again? If you ask them, they'll say yes, I love sustainability. I want to buy better products when it comes to the purchasing its product first and especially for fashion. You need to look good needs to make you feel good. You know, you need to feel that this is great. I mean, you might buy a tomato that list read because it's organic, you know, what's more healthy and I'm going to buy a jacket that looks a little bit Chevy or shity on you and it's all this faded or whatever, you know, so the product first price convenience and then somewhere down the line comes to state of it. Is he? I think that's what that is the reality that we're facing and I've been championing sustainability in the fashion space since the last 15 years and I've really been hoping for this to be the new normal and that we would have more better products out there. But Princeton's on Cotton we just talked about it outside when I started the journey we had about less than 1% organic cotton on the market 15 years down the road. We have less than 1% organic cotton on the market is more weecycled fibrous regenerative is coming in but it's still a complicated topic and we don't know if it's outcome-based the practice space that we couldn't measure it but it's moving really slow and it's an industry that keeps wanting to grow and I agree with you. We need shelter we need food. And what do we need that much clothes? That's a question. And I think that's a difficult Topic in the system knows I'll stop in a difficult topic into sustainable consumption because can we what do you tell CEOs or there shall hold us that we want to grow less. How do you make new services or models? But you can grow in in value but not in volume and when I left global fashion agenda, which is an organization. I used to run in 2019. We did a report is post post code 03 covid the trajectory that the fashion industry was on at the time was to grow 81% in volume. What's 20/30 and if we respect Professor rockstrom planetary boundaries concept? That's not possible. So we do need Innovation and materials Solutions in other ways of putting our products together or finding a way to use more of what is already there. And that is the most sustainable product. However, it was made is the one that's already there. So I love the way that you said value not volume and then Ellen you use the phrase consume differently. And so I don't know if you want to just reflect on that and then think about when you say consume differently, what does that mean? And how do you do, you know how to speak to some of the questions about about continuing to grow while also staying within planetary boundaries ultimate question, right? Like that is the tension I was in a discussion the other day and and it was noted, you know, they're all of these different Mark days at the cop but there is no day around sustainable consumption and we look at the percentages right of what we consume and and That relates to emissions it is significance. So why why is it that day on the agenda yet? Because I think that that is the Crux of a question. So in my mind, it's really around driving force of all, circularity, right? So how how do we start this transition? I am again. There are certain industries that are already figuring this out. Especially when we start looking at recycled metals and and recycle Fabric Center in that sort of thing. And I think you know, the decoupling of growth from consumption is absolutely critical in our last ESG report that came out in June. It showed that our company grew at a rate far greater than carbon emissions emissions around 3% of the company was around 12% So the fact that were able to start separating this and we're seeing those signals like that. That is the gold mine and that's what we need to stay focused on. Well, I want to come to you. I just do one of the things that says I think important for consumers and we'll talk about the bees that the second is to connect with with nature and with you know, the reality that their consumption is affecting nature is affecting climate and I just wanted to offer you the opportunity that is what a ground right that ground that connection that connection with nature. How do you communicate to connect Zoomers with nature in the campaigns and things that you're involved with? Do you want to do you want to hear the truth or do you want to hear my I want I want to hear the truth. You always the truth. You can't stand the truth. Give it to an Ellen should with a few came in through the airport the same price of Planet up there. I mean she got she got messy just put a message out about price of Planet, you know, the opening of coffee, you know, like that's that's getting people's attention. So they've done a tremendous job of trying to really figure out how to mobilize their to really billions of users into a center for that starts imagining this world and in trying to make you a small choice of chicken have massive massive impact, but it's ready to be hard question and it's one that will very much end up either to send me some depression you because every time you think you made progress you just you know, you just, you know, the futility of it like the size of it just comes hammering back at you. So look, I don't think we should stop trying to be really smart about how we communicate Passion for nature very deep interest in humanity board meeting with sharing around the table that we had Sam Cassell used to be, you know, be Obama Chef do this dinner with Extinction. Wait, wait, you ate the dinner using Commodities common Commodities like rice and peaches salmon and coffee that will be extinct in the next 30 Years by like that. That was an amazing conversation around dinner. So you can find ways to keep going to create imagination for people and get them engaged in this your there's a reason why we like golf courses because you know, it's short grass Savannah with umbrella-shaped trees. It goes back to their cellular memory of growing up on the plains of East Africa that you know who might have a little Homo erectus in a first half. So, yes you absolutely by phileas real you can connect with nature you can commune with nature and many many for many people it is they're they're happy space now having said that I I really came to this and I got into this The love of nature she got into this exactly the same reason a lot of unbridled love of nature but love is not enough, which is that hard truth. If that's the thing. You also need to create that because I think value ends up being this big big big driver on the planet. And as long as we only come at trying to protect and restore nature from a love perspective, you know, you won't just never get that the community that you need in order to make that happen, you know, I told the story of the two of you had this I'm so sorry, but it was just it occurred to me. So I grew up I grew up abroad an African Asian, but I went to college in Oregon and during the 1980s and was the Timberwolves in Oregon. So every Community was cutting down the trees around there around 8 lb and we go at Young Tim campaign is basically asking people not to do that all your hunting gauge with small communities in a rural part of Oregon your wine that cutting trees down even sells can see Create massive Havoc for that comedian the running out there running out. It turned out brilliantly the school districts and the timber industry had linked Timber Revenue to schools. If you want to rule School in Oregon your money for that school came from Timber Revenue to every parent who had a kid said, I'll wait 5 years and then I'll start dealing with this problem and every generation made that trade-off because your kids school dedication where the funny going to come from and was just as brilliant thing and it's taking me literally 30 years of something like that to figure out that if we don't do this in our feel if we don't use that same method of linking revenue generated from the protection of nature, you know, to choose to the peoples live your device of us are soaked Lincoln production with the traction at the level of a farmer. Or at the level of whoever's on the land then then, you know love it. So long will just not do it. Absolutely Lincoln production with protection spray great way to put that at I want to go back again to that Supply question, but I do want to talk about the way that you're connecting with consumers and talk about it. Right? Yes actually want to go back to the September last year where confirmation International together with Professor extreme. Also launched to explain to roadmap whole house. But at Joe and Joe and Jo climate week, the exponential roadmap for climate based natural climate of a solution, which was a pivotal Point as as well for us at a guy because I think climate is the main topic everybody's concerned with you speak to the board of public and people are hopeless and they funeral feel despair. But that link that is starts with an a picture and we need to make that connection. It's not only by the mission and I think the admission piece for the individuals makes it feel kind of very fluffy. It is somewhere up there. But when we talked about nature, it's much more grounded and it's part of who we are and where we come from. And then again, if you didn't say biodiversity to the broader public take or what and I even think in the many years. I worked with the fashion industry. They even found it difficult as a topic. I think it's distant and it makes people not connect. They don't really know what it is. And I don't know what it's got to do with him. And that's actually why we came to the bees because we didn't spoke to many many scientists and Gail was part of the whole process since the beginning Gale from Project 17 of the organize of Gould's house. And we spoke to many minutes is it was tested that they was at what if we made the pollinators are the Beast of the pin-up for biodiversity the the the spokesperson the Ambassador and they all said it's totally right because of all the steps you would need to take to preserve the pollinators and all the food. You just mentioned that has some link to pollination. So if you can actually make a more tangible case, so that's why that's why we wanted to use The pollinators the bees as some of the pin up for this agenda and try to make people connect better with nature because most people are concerned with themselves and their health and how it's going but if they love coffee or if they like, you know salmon horite mean there's no clean River and clean water and rivers if we don't have pollinators, so it's all part of an ecosystem. But I think to make it more down-to-earth tangible and a case. So that's why we're proposing a new campaign called be the change and it's another exciting campaign coming out of the way while still supporting which is cool creatures United which is the same messaging about how do we how do we get people to connect better with may try to make it fun and tangible and list of abstract and and I even though it probably will be painful for us to get to the end of the whole at some point. We still need to start with with hope and love and inspiration and education for people to serve connect and I think ya could be a more tangible. With the with the pollinators and focusing on what nature does for us and what we can do for them. Absolutely, that's the role of journalist to try to find ways to connect to 22 people into two more things are more accessible until it's it's good to see his campaign latching on that way as well. I want to talk about the supply side and I know sanjana mean this is something that you know, you've already outlined. Can you just talk a little bit more specifically about linking production with protection and how do you actually do that from Marine? But then I'll show you that Trestle application to the Marine 1zz to to explain. So this is big theory in Marine ecology that if you protect a piece of ocean, there'll be more fish to grow bigger produce more babies the babies swim out and then there's more to catch for everyone if it really is almost taken as gospel or like everyone basically buys this the science is there. And people go out and try to establish Marine protected areas on that believe it's never been tested in in a real-world situation that we just kind of an amazing. No one's ever taken that actually model around it to work in the real world which to me is stunning. So, I mean not because of all the Saturday in Indonesia in a 1 million square kilometers of ocean along the entire coast of Sumatra and a bit of java. The government is basically created pilot area there and basically off as working with local partner consulate Indonesia, and the government to create new Marine protected areas in that region with a big difference. The difference is you're going to put that and then around it the Halo. Did you fish in the Halo the premium goes to the park? Right. So this is basically links the Fisheries industry with the protected area. The Fisheries industry is now incentive eyes to have more protected areas because it means that there's more Halos for them to fish in and the protected areas now have a revenue stream long-term Revenue stream that I should come from fishing the exact same model. I told you about the timber trees but now translate into the ocean and so what we're doing is launching a new 250 million dollar Grant facility in a 250 million dollar Bond Facility Green climate fund financing to get the Blue Halo app says they call in the Indonesia belonged to the G20 in Bali last year and it's now starting to come into fourth lots of work to be done. Lots of examples of why that may not work and the challenges with it. Pretty cool model on The Trestle side. You have to direct applicability when you think about the plight of a farmer and what we are asking them now to do Justin to the Burlington article big spread in time a few years ago on coffee, right? So for the coffee here is why it's going to go extinct in our lifetime. If we don't do something dramatic about it. That to be a coffee for me your smallholder farmer feel like Starbucks Starbucks get coffee from 450,000 Farmers around the world in like 30 country and believable, You basically have 10 or 20 acres. That's as big as it gets and now we are coming in and saying listen your cop is going to die because of climate change. We want more shape. We won't go back there was more or less, etc. Etc. Which means that you have to change your practice. The problem is we have 20 acres or 10 acres Yukon Yukon take happy when it came to your backyard and said guess what amazing backyard half of it you can have to do something else with it for 5 years or 7 years. And so that's the pressure that the farmers are under. So unless we create like when to finance a new school created a mechanism for Farmers on the ground to be able to do that renovation it basically, you know, Jack be with you hear about Justin a g transition for climate the billions of dollars that are going into the energy transition and say Vietnam or South Africa, you need that for nature and you need that particular for working on if you don't make that transition happen, he is the thing that you all know, which you alluded to even if we instantly go to Renewables with a pic of my finger with still screwed and we screwed because about 25% of the missions comes from our impact on nature or destruction of Nature's most of it in the land and accept it. Well, I love the connection with the solution, which hopefully we can scale as we get more talk about when to plant that turns into something more substantial. I wanted to talk about about the Priceless plan of Coalition, which is another way to fund protection to help Advance protection. And so you talked a little bit about how that came about and then perhaps as a thought starter just think about or sure how that might scale and how others might get involved with it first of the price of Planet Coalition started in 2020 and it has a goal of restoring a hundred million trees. So, you know, why did MasterCard decide to to build this Coalition? And first of all of us to do it, we found the best Partners in the world conservation International and wri who are implementing partners and and and the concept of the Coalition is it's all based on climate science on John rocks from science on the where should we be restoring right? It's not in my backyard in Northern, California. Right as much as I might want to see more trees are there certain locations where the investment in nature is going to pay off in the short-term much faster and following that science is incredibly important. So the Coalition aspect back to who MasterCard is and we have we have this extensive network. How can we mobilize the network into a movement to protect nature and restore it? So as not to mention one of the highlights that I'm looking forward to is on the day of rest. We are taking some leaders to one of our 20 restoration site that we have around the world. I'm Samantha has just one hour north of Dubai and we're going to be kayaking through it but experiencing how is this program different than other restoration program because its focus not just on the environmental impact of the biodiversity piece of it as well as the livelihood so taking a very holistic approach and how we restore and that the role were trying to play as the convener. Creating programs that are plug-and-play. So if you're from an organization who's interested and doing restoration, you don't have to go find her own Partners or your own climate scientist or the right locations. It's all launched in programs. Right? We're monitoring programs that I do think, you know the framework that c i n w r i have created for the Coalition is one of the strongest monitoring and evaluation Frameworks out there. So, you know, this isn't just to plan a tree or a mangrove and then walk away. There's there's a very intense program around it to bring the high integrity and we need to change into this one. I think you should come out. So how do you pay for it? There are many different ways is the first samples you want to do a corporate donation. You could just donate the $1000000 or whatever it is to the Coalition. But if you're a retailer one of our Merchants, right, we're we're we're trying to have the merchants understand the need for the change as well as the car holder at point of sale. For example car for did a great campaign in France for two weeks. They did a round up campaign and often you've all been in the grocery store some retailer. It says in your pay do you want to round up a dollar $5 towards the price has been accomplished in and we found that to be an incredibly effective way to mobilize the card holder as well as the merchants often times. It's a matching program right where the merchant is taking on responsibilities and the cardholder is given an opportunity to contribute as well. ```json [{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","@id":"https://time.com/6341884/climate-change-consumption/","mainEntityOfPage":{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https://time.com/6341884/climate-change-consumption/"},"headline":"Why Tackling Climate Change Through Consumption May Be Harder Than It Seems","datePublished":"2023-12-04T11:33:28.000Z","dateModified":"2023-12-05T17:08:27.000Z","description":"At a TIME Talks discussion at COP28, panelists discussed why sustainable consumption is hard to achieve.","url":"https://time.com/6341884/climate-change-consumption/","keywords":["sponsorshipblock"],"thumbnailUrl":"https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt76d5162eaa5c2df4/698a42dcb3fce30d500cb150/cop28-panel-dubai-01.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=1200:675&height=675","author":[{"@type":"Person","name":"Justin Worland / Dubai"}],"articleSection":"Climate","image":[{"@type":"ImageObject","url":"https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt76d5162eaa5c2df4/698a42dcb3fce30d500cb150/cop28-panel-dubai-01.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=1200:675&height=675","width":1200,"height":675,"headline":"cop28-panel-dubai-01","caption":"Panelists at the TIME 100 Talks: The Power of Purchase event at COP28 in Dubai include Eva Kruse, M. 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