--- title: Taika Waititi and Jaiyah Saelua on the Story Behind Next Goal Wins description: In Taika Waititi's new movie, fa’afafine soccer player Jaiyah Saelua blurs the line between genders and reminds us what sports are about. canonical: https://time.com/6336881/next-goal-wins-taika-waititi-jaiyah-saelua-interview/ author: Laura Zornosa article:opinion: false article:content_tier: free article:published_time: 2023-11-17T18:06:16.000Z article:modified_time: 2026-05-11T04:52:51.070Z article:section: Entertainment og:title: Taika Waititi and Jaiyah Saelua on the Story Behind Next Goal Wins og:description: In Taika Waititi's new movie, fa’afafine soccer player Jaiyah Saelua blurs gender and reminds us what sports are about. og:url: https://time.com/6336881/next-goal-wins-taika-waititi-jaiyah-saelua-interview/ og:site_name: TIME og:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt8a2dda8819b5a8f4/698a4270011682e27e983a65/Next-Goal-Wins-lead-image.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 og:image:width: 1200 og:image:height: 675 og:image:alt: Next Goal Wins lead image og:type: article twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: Taika Waititi and Jaiyah Saelua on the Story Behind Next Goal Wins twitter:description: In Taika Waititi's new movie, fa’afafine soccer player Jaiyah Saelua blurs gender and reminds us what sports are about. twitter:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt8a2dda8819b5a8f4/698a4270011682e27e983a65/Next-Goal-Wins-lead-image.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 ---  # Taika Waititi and Jaiyah Saelua on the 'Ridiculous, Stunning, and Beautiful' Story Behind _Next Goal Wins_ > Sponsored content. 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Terms and conditions apply. * Savings buckets are a feature of Ally Bank's Savings Account. * No ATM fees from Ally Bank at Allpoint and Moneypass ATMs plus we reimburse for fees charged by other ATM owners nationwide up to $10 per statement cycle. * Early direct deposit offers eligible direct deposits up to two days sooner. * Spending buckets are a feature of Ally Bank's Spending Account.  by [Laura Zornosa](https://time.com/author/laura-zornosa/)  ## Laura Zornosa Laura Zornosa is a reporter at TIME. Nov 17, 2023 6:06 PM UTC  Jaiyah (Kaimana) dances the Taualuga, the peak of Samoan performance art forms, in 'Next Goal Wins." Jaiyah (Kaimana) dances the Taualuga, the peak of Samoan performance art forms, in 'Next Goal Wins."Courtesy of Searchlight Pictures  by [Laura Zornosa](https://time.com/author/laura-zornosa/)  ## Laura Zornosa Laura Zornosa is a reporter at TIME. Nov 17, 2023 6:06 PM UTC Since long before colonization, four genders have flourished in Samoan culture: female, male, fa’afafine, and fa’afatama. The last two translate to “in the manner of a woman” and “in the manner of a man,” respectively, and they mean what they sound like: A fa’afafine person is assigned male at birth, but expresses feminine characteristics, and vice versa. Both move comfortably along the gender spectrum. “Being fa’afafine means to understand and accept that our identity is closely related to the fact that we're assigned the male gender at birth,” fa’afafine soccer player Jaiyah Saelua tells TIME. “And unlike a lot of trans folk who don't want anything to do with that fact, we as fa’afafine embrace it.”  Jaiyah (Kaimana) and Samson (Hio Pelesasa), along with the rest of the team, perform the Siva Tau war dance before they play. Hilary Bronwyn Gayle—Searchlight Pictures But the two are not mutually exclusive: In 2011, Saelua became both the [first fa’afafine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/01/footballs-first-faafafine-trans-rights-trailblazer-jaiyah-saelua-on-stardom-and-sisterhood) and the first openly transgender woman to play in a FIFA World Cup qualifying match for men. FIFA has [recognized her](https://www.theguardian.com/football/2014/aug/29/jaiyah-saelua-transgender-footballer-interview) as the first transgender international soccer player to play in the World Cup. She was also the first transgender player to start a World Cup qualifying game. Saelua, a center back defender, was one of the subjects of the 2014 documentary _Next Goal Wins_. And now the fa’afafine actor [Kaimana](https://variety.com/2019/film/news/taika-waititi-kaimana-next-goal-wins-1203371720/) is playing her in a film with the same name, directed by Taika Waititi, and out in theaters on Nov. 17\. Both movies tell the tale of the American Samoan national soccer team. By 2001, the team had lost every official match they had ever played, and that year, they suffered the worst loss in the history of international soccer: 31-0 at the hands of Australia. A decade later, the team strives to redeem itself and qualify for the 2014 FIFA World Cup. Enter Thomas Rongen (played by Michael Fassbender in the new film), a Dutch-born American coach who aims to whip the team into shape. Waititi’s version is loosely based on the true story, and heavily embellished along the way. But that’s besides the point: Waititi set out to tell a funny, warm story that showcases a slice of the Pacific. His movie re-introduces a ragtag of lovable characters, glossed with a comedic sheen: Tavita Taumua (Oscar Kightley), president of the Football Federation American Samoa; Iofi “Ace” Lalogafuafua (David Fane), the team’s coach before Thomas; and Tavita’s son Daru (Beulah Koale), a player on the team; among others. When people watch _Next Goal Wins_, “I just want them to experience a little bit of a different culture that they probably never think about,” Waititi, who is of Māori descent, tells TIME. “That there are funny parts to us, that we laugh at ourselves. And that we are also ridiculous—as well as stunning and beautiful.” In his acceptance speech at the 2019 Oscars, for the film _Jojo Rabbit_, Waititi [told](https://www.theguardian.com/film/2020/feb/10/taika-waititi-first-maori-oscars-2020-indigenous-new-zealand) the audience, “I dedicate this to all the Indigenous kids in the world who want to do art and dance and write stories: We are the original storytellers.” Since then, Waititi has consistently championed Indigenous artists: He co-created [_Reservation Dogs_](https://time.com/6202872/reservation-dogs-fx/) with Sterlin Harjo, brought Indigenous interns [onto set](https://www.screenaustralia.gov.au/sa/screen-news/2017/10-17-taika-waititi-thor-ragnarok) for _Thor: Love and Thunder_, and executive produced Billy Luther’s _Frybread Face and Me_, which comes to Netflix on Nov. 24.  Director Taika Waititi on the set of 'Next Goal Wins.' Hilary Bronwyn Gayle—Searchlight Pictures He’s known for quirky oddball comedies, and _Next Goal Wins_ is his [least cynical](https://twitter.com/TaikaWaititi/status/1646294379483783168?s=20) film yet. If Saelua’s character was something of the heart of the original documentary, she becomes the lifeblood of the team in the new movie—and the coach’s right-hand fa’afafine. “You look at Jaiyah, and she encapsulates what I think American Samoa is all about: A culture and environment where everything is fairly pure and healthy,” coach Thomas Rongen says in the documentary. “And the sport is really played for the joy and the love of it, and then gender, race doesn’t really matter.” Pacific cultures often tend to be more accepting of gender nonconformity. Kaimana, for instance, considers herself transgender, fa’afafine (Samoan), fakafefine (Tongan), māhū (Hawaiian/Tahitian), and whakawahine (Māori). While each identity belongs distinctly to its own society, they share a sense of fluidity. Waititi thinks that perhaps Polynesians simply realized there were bigger fish to fry than debating distinctions. “At some point, someone would have been like, 'Well, you know what? It might be more important that we just accept that someone identifies a different way, and we should concentrate more on getting food and surviving,’” he says. “Which is the big thing that I think can be learned from a lot of Native cultures: I think people got over their hang-ups a lot earlier than Western civilizations did.” In both the new movie and the documentary, fa’afafine are explained as an integral and beloved part of Samoan culture.  Thomas Rongen (Michael Fassbender) and Jaiyah (Kaimana) share lunch on the beach. Hilary Bronwyn Gayle—Searchlight Pictures Saelua just left the American Samoan national soccer team, which is currently playing in the Pacific Games, so she can participate in the press tour for _Next Goal Wins_. But she hopes to be back for the World Cup qualifiers next year. And eventually, by the time she steps off the pitch as a player, she hopes to coach a women's or youth national team. She’s also a FIFA [ambassador](https://www.out.com/out100/groundbreakers/jaiyah-saelua) for LGBTQ+ athletes. _Next Goal Wins_ transports sports fans like her back to when they first started playing as a kid, Saelua says. (For her, that was at age 11, coached by the national team’s own goalkeeper, Nicky Salapu.) “You're reminded of the fact that you played the sport in the very beginning because you loved the sport,” Saelua says. “And it's not always about winning.” No matter what specific sport, and regardless of religion or culture or race, Waititi says, people set aside their differences for a game. Just like they might for a film. 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