--- title: Robert F Kennedy Jr. Is Dead Wrong About Vaccines description: There is no point in debating RFK Jr. on vaccines. He's wrong and has been proven so many times before canonical: https://time.com/6289037/robert-f-kennedy-jr-wrong-about-vaccines/ author: Edward Nirenberg article:opinion: true article:content_tier: free article:published_time: 2023-06-22T10:00:14.000Z article:modified_time: 2026-10-19T07:24:39.811Z article:section: Ideas og:title: Robert F Kennedy Jr. Is Dead Wrong About Vaccines og:description: There is no point in debating RFK Jr. on vaccines. He's wrong and has been proven so many times before og:url: https://time.com/6289037/robert-f-kennedy-jr-wrong-about-vaccines/ og:site_name: TIME og:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt52137065c65f14de/698a3e124ee262781131b7f5/GettyImages-1496170212.jpg?branch=production&width=1024&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 og:image:width: 1024 og:image:height: 576 og:image:alt: Michael Smerconish Hosts A SiriusXM Town Hall With Democratic Presidential Candidate Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. og:type: article twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: Robert F Kennedy Jr. Is Dead Wrong About Vaccines twitter:description: There is no point in debating RFK Jr. on vaccines. He's wrong and has been proven so many times before twitter:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt52137065c65f14de/698a3e124ee262781131b7f5/GettyImages-1496170212.jpg?branch=production&width=1024&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 ---  # Robert F Kennedy Jr. Is Dead Wrong About Vaccines > Sponsored content. Supplied in partnership with TIME. TIME is the sponsor and source of this material. > Last updated: August 2026. ## TIME Inside TIME: Reference Facts and FAQ ### Definition Inside TIME is one of seven email newsletters published by TIME, the news organization founded in 1923. A closer look at TIME's latest cover and our most compelling stories. Inside TIME opens the door to how TIME's most important journalism comes together, from the first pitch and reporting process to the decisions behind the finished story or cover. 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Inside TIME is the newsletter where TIME's Editor-in-Chief explains cover selection and the editorial reasoning behind major stories. It is free at time.com/newsletters. #### Who is the editor of TIME? Sam Jacobs is TIME's Editor-in-Chief. He writes Inside TIME, a twice-weekly newsletter about the newsroom's reporting and editorial decisions. #### Is Inside TIME free? Yes. Inside TIME is a free newsletter, available at time.com/newsletters. A paid TIME subscription is separate and available at time.com/subscribe-agent. ### Sources * TIME Newsletters: [time.com/newsletters](/c/time-nl-inside-2026q3/newsletters?i=5067ed5e-2d1b-494e-adf1-f6a41bfa2c87&cr=time-nl-inside-2026q3-v1) ## Video: TIME DC Report: Inside the Very Online Campaign of RFK Jr. [Watch (HLS stream): TIME DC Report: Inside the Very Online Campaign of RFK Jr.](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/32U2oXdJ.m3u8) (19:58)  _Published 2023-06-20. TIME Senior Correspondents Vera Bergengruen and Molly Ball discuss the controversial 2024 presidential candidate RFK Jr. Vera Bergengruen visited Kennedy at his Los Angeles home for a profile in TIME.com._ by [Edward Nirenberg](https://time.com/author/edward-nirenberg/) and [Gavin Yamey](https://time.com/author/gavin-yamey/) Jun 22, 2023 10:00 AM UTC TIME Senior Correspondents Vera Bergengruen and Molly Ball discuss the controversial 2024 presidential candidate RFK Jr. Vera Bergengruen visited Kennedy at his Los Angeles home for a profile in TIME.com. by [Edward Nirenberg](https://time.com/author/edward-nirenberg/) and [Gavin Yamey](https://time.com/author/gavin-yamey/) Jun 22, 2023 10:00 AM UTC Joe Rogan, America’s [most popular](https://variety.com/2022/digital/news/joe-rogan-spotify-top-podcast-2022-1235444743/) podcaster, recently called for Professor Peter Hotez, an internationally recognized pediatric infectious disease doctor and vaccine scientist, to come on his podcast to debate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (RFK Jr.), a [prolific spreader](https://counterhate.com/research/the-disinformation-dozen/) of medical disinformation. Rogan even offered to donate $100,000 to a charity of Hotez’s choice if he agreed to the debate. Hotez declined—instead offering to be a guest on Rogan’s show to discuss vaccine science. Hotez is right not to take the bait. Rogan is unqualified to moderate such a debate, and has [himself](https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2022/jan/31/joe-rogan-covid-claims-what-does-the-science-actually-say) peddled disinformation about vaccines. Debating anti-vaccine conspiracy theorists like RFK Jr. is a fool’s errand, which always [backfires](https://yourlocalepidemiologist.substack.com/p/when-and-how-do-we-debate-vaccine?utm%5Fsource=substack&utm%5Fmedium=email), as history has [demonstrated repeatedly](https://www.nature.com/articles/465686a). These debates give the [false impression](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6680130/#:~:text=This%20is%20an%20example%20of,and%20coverage%20to%20both%20positions.) that there are “two equivalent sides,” and therefore can cause real public health damage. Historian [Andrew Wehrman](https://www.andrewwehrman.com/), an expert on the history of smallpox vaccination in the United States, gives a [telling example](https://twitter.com/ProfWehrman/status/1670812548814258181?s=20) of the harm that is done when an expert debates an anti-vaxxer. In Minnesota in 1902, the local anti-vaccination league hoped to overturn a law requiring vaccination of schoolchildren against smallpox, managing to organize a debate. [Dr. Justus Ohage](https://www.startribune.com/before-fauci-there-was-ohage-st-pauls-health-czar/600128451/), a giant of medicine, engaged anti-vaccine advocate W.B. Clarke. Ohage discussed the evidence around the importance of smallpox vaccination. Clarke raised multiple false claims which Ohage was unprepared for (as these could not be fact-checked in real time), and in 1903, the law was repealed. Two decades later, in 1924, Minnesota experienced its deadliest-ever smallpox epidemic, with 500 deaths. “Repealing the childhood vaccination law,” [says](https://twitter.com/ProfWehrman/status/1670812571543261184?s=20) Wehrman, “cost lives.” Like Clarke, RFK Jr. is, certainly chomping at the bit to debate Hotez. For Kennedy, there are only upsides to such a debate. The event would turn into a media circus akin to the 1902 Minnesota affair, giving Kennedy air time and creating the impression that Kennedy’s views on vaccines should be taken seriously and are reasonable—which is certainly not the case. **_Read More:_** [**_Inside the Very Online Campaign of RFK Jr._** ](https://time.com/6287001/rfk-jr-interview-2024-campaign/) Much of Kennedy’s opposition to vaccination seems to [center](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/apr/13/robert-kennedy-apologises-for-holocaust-comparison-vaccines) on his false claim that vaccines cause autism. But there have now been studies that have included [millions of children](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24814559/) and these studies have found no relationship between vaccination and autism. One [remarkable study](https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/m18-2101) looked at every child born in Denmark over a twelve-year period and could not identify an increased risk of autism in the children who were vaccinated relative to those who were not. Indeed, the evidence is [very clear](https://nap.nationalacademies.org/download/10997): there is no link between vaccination and autism. The best available research evidence suggests that autism is likely to be [genetic](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4996332/) in nature. The rise in the incidence of autism is attributable largely to [evolving diagnostic criteria](https://www.spectrumnews.org/news/evolution-autism-diagnosis-explained/) that are intended to capture more cases and begin earlier intervention. All of this evidence has not stopped anti-vaccine activists like Kennedy from holding steadfast to their false claims, with each successive refutation being met with an [excuse](https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/48/4/456/284219?login=false). Kennedy also made the false [claim](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/dec/10/robert-f-kennedy-jr/no-covid-19-vaccine-not-deadliest-vaccine-ever-mad/) that COVID vaccines are the deadliest vaccines ever made. Let’s take a look at this claim. Deaths from vaccines are [exceptionally rare](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4599698/) for two main reasons. The first is that precautions are taken in [who](https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/acip-recs/general-recs/contraindications.html) gets vaccinated—for example, the MMR vaccine is a live vaccine, so it is not given to people who are severely immunocompromised. The second is the [stringent safety standards](https://www.fda.gov/files/vaccines,%20blood%20&%20biologics/published/Ensuring-the-Safety-of-Vaccines-in-the-United-States.pdf) that must be met for any vaccine to ever reach the public. Kennedy’s false claim is based on reports of deaths after receipt of COVID-19 vaccines in the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). His claim does not hold up to scrutiny, and shows his misunderstanding of VAERS. Anyone can report any event to VAERS. A report of an event is _not_ proof that the vaccine was the cause. Indeed, VAERS’s own [disclaimer](https://wonder.cdc.gov/vaers.html) states: “VAERS reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable.” Deaths reported in VAERS have [included](https://www.forbes.com/sites/matthewherper/2012/06/20/more-on-why-the-adverse-event-reports-on-gardasil-dont-point-to-a-problem/?sh=4d4f7775711e) car crashes and even the death of a girl who fell into a well—these events were clearly not caused by a vaccine. The main purpose of VAERS is as an early warning system: If there’s a dramatic rise in a particular event, this signal can be investigated with more robust surveillance systems, like the [Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD)](https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/ensuringsafety/monitoring/vsd/index.html), which has access to medical records and can make detailed comparisons between vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. Evidence from these more robust systems has shown that COVID-19 vaccines are remarkably safe and that deaths from the vaccines are [extremely rare](https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/dec/10/robert-f-kennedy-jr/no-covid-19-vaccine-not-deadliest-vaccine-ever-mad/), which has also been confirmed by studies [outside](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-35653-z) the U.S. In Kennedy’s conspiracy-laden fantasy world, a shadowy cabal conspires to hide the risks of vaccination. In the real world, U.S. public health agencies take vaccine safety extremely seriously and approach it with great transparency. After millions of the Janssen COVID-19 vaccine were given, just 6 cases of an unusual pattern of blood clots were enough to trigger a [pause](https://www.fda.gov/news-events/press-announcements/fda-and-cdc-lift-recommended-pause-johnson-johnson-janssen-covid-19-vaccine-use-following-thorough) on vaccine—eventually a [preferential recommendation](https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7103a4.htm#:~:text=On%20December%2016%2C%202021%2C%20after,years%20in%20the%20United%20States.) for mRNA vaccines was issued because of the seriousness of this very rare condition, one that [does not occur](https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/full/10.7326/M21-4502?rfr%5Fdat=cr%5Fpub++0pubmed&url%5Fver=Z39.88-2003&rfr%5Fid=ori%3Arid%3Acrossref.org) from mRNA vaccines. A [safety signal](https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/bivalent-boosters.html) for the bivalent Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine for strokes in older adults was immediately communicated when it was identified even though [subsequent data](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/article-abstract/2806456) [suggests](https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/acip/meetings/downloads/slides-2023-04-19/03-COVID-Shimabukuro-508.pdf) that this finding is a statistical artefact. Unfortunately, Kennedy has also [argued](https://www.facebook.com/rfkjr/posts/with-no-data-showing-covid-vaccines-are-safe-for-pregnant-women-and-despite-repo/2877302445929819/) that COVID-19 vaccines are especially inappropriate in pregnancy. While it is true that the initial studies of the COVID-19 vaccines did not include pregnant individuals, data showing the safety and effectiveness of COVID-19 vaccines in pregnancy [quickly emerged](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41577-022-00703-6). Pregnant people are at [dramatically heightened](https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2803485) risk of severe illness and death if they get COVID-19, and vaccination plays a critical role in preventing these awful outcomes. Kennedy’s organization, Children’s Health Defense, has published [posts](https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/covid-vaccine-pfizer-pregnant-women-cola/) dated as recently as August 2022 arguing that COVID vaccines should be banned in pregnancy, after [extensive evidence](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-30052-w) for their safety and benefits has been available. Kennedy’s brand of extreme anti-vaccine activism can have deadly consequences. In June 2019, he [visited](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/measles-in-samoa/) Samoa, appearing alongside local anti-vaccine activists. Later that year, a measles outbreak resulted in [83](https://www.rnz.co.nz/international/pacific-news/406802/two-more-deaths-from-measles-in-samoa-over-new-year-period) [preventable deaths](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099%2820%2930053-0/fulltext), most of which were in children under 5, because of poor uptake of the MMR vaccine. Despite the deadly outbreak, Kennedy wrote a [letter](https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/RFKletterSamoanPM.pdf) to Samoa’s Prime Minister Malielegaoi to deflect blame from the anti-vaccine movement and instead suggest that the outbreak was due to a defective MMR vaccine. Physician-scientist David Gorski has [provided](https://www.respectfulinsolence.com/2019/12/05/samoa-measles-outbreak-malielegaoi/) a thorough dissection of the “deceptive pseudoscientific talking points” in Kennedy’s letter. RFK Jr’s own family [say](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/05/08/robert-kennedy-jr-measles-vaccines-226798/) that he is “tragically wrong about vaccines.” They state that he is “part of a misinformation campaign that’s having heartbreaking—and deadly—consequences.” We agree. Kennedy’s views on vaccination are as fringe and detached from reality as it is possible to be, and their dissemination among the public in any format directly harms us all. ## Transcript [00:05] I am Molly ball of Time. [00:07] Magazine. I'm here with my colleague Vera, [00:08] bergengruen, welcome. Thank you. [00:11] So we're here to talk about your new profile of Bobby, [00:15] Kennedy jr. Now, you normally Cover disinformation [00:19] far-right online communities. [00:21] How did that lead you to a profile of Bobby? [00:23] Kennedy. Yeah, so I'm usually kind of an investigative [00:26] correspondent. I caught a lot of online movements where these [00:30] kind of ideas come from that can come over like large groups of [00:33] people especially on the internet and it was covering [00:35] a lot. The end of vaccine movement during covid-19 off. [00:39] And who the big personalities were that whose name? [00:41] I'm kind of concerned onimus with the movement. [00:43] And one of them was RK Junior and people really responded [00:47] to him partly, maybe because he the Kennedy to recognize [00:50] his name, but he has been running on anti-vaccine Organization [00:53] for decades before it became you know trendiest people can decide [00:57] to Winco before it became much more from mainstream idea. [01:00] And so I actually went to a big rally on the Lincoln Memorial. [01:04] It was called the The Mandate that was last January in 2022 [01:08] and he was one of the keynote speakers. [01:10] It was a very right-wing rally. [01:12] It was you know Evan was holding all these signs, [01:15] that had a range of very right-wing, [01:17] slogans that proud boys over there and he is no purpose to the [01:22] Democrat and he was there as one of the main speakers. [01:25] And a lot of people really responded to him to his message. [01:29] About, you know, the dangers of vaccines. [01:31] What he said, was a big cover-up by the government and all the [01:35] more Republicans, all of them were very conservative and [01:37] they told me that they really admired him and we're going [01:40] to keep following, you know, the career and see what he does next. [01:42] And so, I also kept covering what he did next and now, [01:45] you know, he's running as a Democrat, [01:46] but it seems to have a very odd Coalition of support from the [01:50] far left the far-right and kind of everything between, [01:53] right? So he's not running for president, [01:54] in the Democratic primary against President, Joe Biden, [01:58] but it's a very unconventional campaign. [02:01] Talk about the time. [02:02] You spent with him the reporting that you did. [02:03] He actually lives. [02:05] Play, you know, he's married to Cheryl Hines, [02:08] who's a famous actress from Curb, Your Enthusiasm. [02:10] And, you know, he, he usually number to go route and I went [02:19] to his house. [02:20] He lives, you know, about, you know, [02:21] thousand feet above sea level, you lose reception. [02:23] When you drive up to his house in Mandeville Canyon. [02:25] And, you know, his entire home is living room at the shrine [02:30] to his fangs. [02:31] Uncle famous father. [02:32] He has, you know, a bust of, [02:34] you know, JFK he's got all these frames Memorial, [02:37] ER, from his dad. [02:38] He was nine when his uncle was assassinated and fourteen [02:42] when his that was shot. [02:43] And so it's almost like he's created this like time. [02:47] Kind of stopped at that moment, he's got there. [02:50] So you know, they were both so young when they were killed [02:52] and so he get all very, they have all these campaign posters, [02:55] you know, he a junior himself is 69 and so, [02:59] you know, that's frozen in time if he's very young curse, [03:03] not a politicians were cut down in their Prime. [03:05] And he says he's trying to continue on their legacy and you can [03:09] tell by being in his home that, [03:10] you know, he's kind of spent his whole life in that shadow [03:13] and thinking about that Legacy. [03:18] Kissing you, the really understanding guy, you can tell that [03:21] he had the demeanor of someone who's used to being listen [03:24] to, he was born at Kennedy. [03:26] He was always very political and it's almost like he's used [03:32] to being listened to on any topic, [03:34] whether it's cryptocurrency or Ukraine, you know, [03:37] he goes He studies it and then you know, [03:39] he goes out and talks about what he's learned and he's used to [03:42] people take him seriously. [03:43] And so he's, you know, it's on in some ways cuz you look at [03:48] him and you he says he Bears a striking resemblance to his dad. [03:51] Everyone always said he was the one that was the most similar [03:54] and the one that most kind of had his political talents but he [03:57] he has a vocal disorder. [03:59] He lost his voice when he was forty-two. [04:01] He he says it's a side effect of the vaccine and there's [04:05] no proof of that. [04:06] But it's almost like you're looking at his dad or at his uncle [04:09] at someone who looks pretty familiar. [04:11] But, you know, he got old and they never did. [04:13] And so he kind of has this again, this [04:16] is very kind of 60s. [04:18] Look, A very simple way of expressing himself, [04:20] but it's when you listen to what is actually saying, [04:24] he's someone, who clearly spent a lot of time online. [04:26] He speaks kind of in the in the parlance of someone who's spent [04:31] a lot of time with Twitter spaces and talks a lot and kind of [04:34] right-wing telegram groups. [04:35] And so it is a really odd combination of that kind of sixties [04:39] nostalgic style. You guys are popular in the 60s, [04:44] just like his uncle and his dad he will have his sleeves rolled [04:46] up in there a certain look that consciously or unconsciously. [04:50] He's trying to emulate and at the same time he's probably [04:53] the most online that he's got a tick tock, [04:55] he's out there talking about censorship and you know, [04:59] you know, all those kind of things. [05:00] And so is it was very, it was a very interesting conversation, [05:03] two to listen to someone who I got stuck in such different [05:07] kind of Spears when you talk about him sort of going on and on, and [05:11] on at length. [05:18] Lots of seems like it's a Nostalgia that goes beyond just the [05:21] Kennedy family, right? [05:22] It's it's a it's an older America that he's trying to invoke. [05:25] Yeah, it really struck me from his work throughout his life [05:29] in different ways. [05:30] He keeps referring back to, you know, [05:32] and even before he was even alive, [05:34] and he's kind of talking about, you know, [05:35] people used to be able to go out when they lost her job and [05:37] you know, catch fish in the river and feed their families [05:40] and now the rivers are polluted and so I'm trying to say is it [05:44] goes all the way back. [05:44] He really kind of house is very nostalgic vision of America [05:48] but especially kind of from what he considers, [05:51] the Golden Era of the 60s which again, [05:53] you know, his life was kind of divided into before. [05:56] And after his father was assassinated and, [05:58] you know, it cut short, this campaigne that was so much about [06:01] optimism about, forward-looking Bobby, Kennedy campaign [06:04] was, it was just all about the future in about, [06:08] you know, this this particular vision for America and he sees [06:11] himself as the heir of that. [06:13] But really all he talks about is a past, [06:15] he kind of talks about, you know, [06:16] their companies in you. [06:18] Be able to poison medicines without anyone holding me accountable. [06:20] The government's, you know, people used to trust the government [06:23] and, you know, not to lie to them, [06:26] but he speaks about this era and clearly wants to return to it. [06:34] And so, I specifically just asked him, [06:35] I said, it's an actual strikes, me pretty, [06:37] pretty maggotty, pretty Trump in and he said, [06:40] he'd let you know I I I want to go back to the Americas, [06:43] my youth, and he wants to know when you go to his campaign [06:47] rallies, the signs are I'm at Kennedy Democrat. [06:50] And then the same font in the same blue block letters from the [06:53] 60s, and even though I think most people now, [06:56] but it's still kind of seems to bring up something in most Democrats [07:02] in this era, that's clearly. [07:04] Been kind of idealized, but they, you know, [07:07] it sounds pretty good for people to say, [07:08] sure, we want to go back to that, [07:09] we're decided fight with a current current political sphere. [07:12] We're okay with vide, we don't really like him all that much [07:14] and would love to go back to what you're describing. [07:18] People probably know the famous name, they may know his anti-vaccine [07:22] activism, but but talked a little bit about his career before [07:25] that. So he, you know, he got really into environmental [07:29] law when he was younger, he spent three decades, [07:32] you know, becoming a very famous Environmental Lawyer. [07:35] He he got all kinds of awards accolades respected in the field. [07:41] He was, he's pretty intense and obsessive about his passions, [07:45] everyone says that you can tell no matter what he focuses [07:49] on, he's he kind of has to be that way. [07:50] And so he just, you know, relentlessly, [07:53] pursued polluters views are credited with cleaning up the Hudson, [07:56] you do kind of doing all the company's coal oil and you know, [08:02] focusing a lot of indigenous communities. [08:04] He traveled a lot of South America and you know, [08:07] again like it did, that's what many people do, [08:08] remember, I think it was used on magazine covers. [08:11] I see no big-hitting matters. [08:12] The one is going to be there to put the one with the political [08:15] future and then [08:18] Is it important to realize that this is a continuation [08:21] of the world for you? [08:22] It's not a lot of people have been asking recently since become [08:26] so prominent. You know what happened to RFK Jr. [08:28] You know, when did he kind of what he's go off the deep end. [08:32] But when you is important to understand that for him, [08:34] he was pursuing polluters and then he decided that vaccines [08:38] were polluted with Mercury. [08:39] None of this as a scientific basis of scientists and experts [08:44] say it's not true. [08:47] But, you know, he basically decided that vaccines were being [08:51] polluted, it died. [08:52] You know, he says died when he was younger, [08:54] that was no autism allergies. [08:59] He basically, he pulls this all these facts together, [09:01] which it, you know, that's what they take out of context [09:04] and basically decided, I didn't know kind of in the same idea [09:08] of going backwards. [09:09] The thing that I change, we're back to the Inns and they're [09:12] dangerous for children, and I guess there's no factual basis [09:15] to this but he founded [09:18] Does an energy. [09:19] Basically built the largest anti-vaccine organization [09:23] in the United States and the Kennedy name kind of help with [09:26] that because if you come out of nowhere and start saying these [09:29] things, you might not get very far, [09:30] but use the family name to kind of give some respectability [09:34] to very French anti-vaccine views. [09:37] Would you remain friends until recently until the pandemic [09:40] have brought a lot of these probably important to emphasize [09:45] very dangerous on scientific non-factual ideas about vaccines [09:50] into the mainstream, very dangerous ideas but but he's had this [09:54] appetite for conspiracy theories for a long time in addition [09:58] to the vaccine stuff, even even stuff about his dad, [10:00] right, right. And he seemed to be a bit more on TV interviews, [10:07] to talk about his family to talk about his environmental [10:09] work. And once he really weird hard into these, [10:13] you know, dangerous conspiracy theories about vaccines, [10:16] he was kind of ostracized. [10:17] You wasn't allowed Documentary about his dad, [10:20] he was people. [10:20] Basically, he didn't want to do anything until he started [10:24] going further further to every kind of conspiracies, [10:27] which you may have kind of believed before, [10:29] but clearly now felt so you might as well go into them. [10:32] So, he had a very expensive theory about the 2004 election [10:36] being stolen, he thinks if ye killed his dad, [10:39] he, you know, it and then you just kind of goes on, [10:42] zaidi is being installed in order to harvest are, [10:45] are you know, all kinds of different formation about us and all [10:48] these things usually positions in a way that many people would [10:51] kind of agree with, and then, he kind of goes way way further [10:54] a tactic that it's pretty effective to get people to believe [10:58] in conspiracies, governing philosophy Beyond this sort of idea [11:04] that there's a conspiracy out there, does he have a set of political [11:08] beliefs that you could imagine, you know, [11:09] being president and, and, and, and working from that, [11:13] right? I mean he isnae idea. [11:18] A proposal to anything like that for for most areas his main [11:23] idea is that, you know, there's his corporate control of government [11:26] of every agency and he needs to route that out. [11:29] He needs to get rid of all those financial conflicts of interest, all [11:32] those entanglements, and, you know, basically return the [11:36] government to the people and his, his tagline for his campaign [11:39] is reclaim democracy, which is pretty Stark particular [11:42] way to. And again, I asked him, [11:46] how would you do that? [11:46] You know how old that seems? [11:48] You know, it sounds, I think your people would disagree [11:50] that rooting out corruption. [11:53] All the things he says on their face, [11:56] sound good to most people. [11:57] He said, he would be very easy. [11:59] He was fully confident. [12:00] He said, I'm just, you know, he says he sued so many of these [12:03] agencies that he knows exactly who's a good person or a bad person [12:05] and he'll be able to, basically get rid of them. [12:07] And I just kind of started getting him some agencies. [12:10] I said, you know what about the FDA? [12:12] He's like, oh yeah, you know, I'm going to put in the people, [12:15] I used to work with the lawyer. [12:18] CIA. And he said, most people were just trying to do their [12:23] best, but again you need to kind of get rid of the top vanity. [12:26] No top people who are, you know, [12:28] it is. Mine kind of completely controlled by all these corrupt [12:32] corporations that are pulling the strings. [12:34] And the main, that's just as main message is basically [12:38] get me in there and I will kind of go back to this particular [12:41] version of thank you know you didn't have our discussions [12:44] of particular immigration policy. He [12:46] doesn't have comprehensive policies for healthcare. [12:49] Maybe, you know, that was early days but the two main things [12:53] are kind of corporate control. [12:56] What he does, the corporate control of American government [12:58] and also for Ukraine and kind of get America out of the cycle [13:07] of being a ball to Broad. [13:08] And most interesting things I thought about your story was this [13:12] very unconventional set of fans that he's attracted. [13:15] He obviously runs in some very Circles campaign now is attracting [13:22] support for from everyone, from Aaron Rodgers, [13:24] the quarterback to to Jack Dorsey, the Twitter founder Alicia [13:28] Silverstone, other other Hollywood figured, I could talk a little [13:32] bit about this was a very unconventional campaign. [13:34] He's running. Yeah, it's it's very odd. [13:37] The kind of people. [13:37] He's attractive have pretty big megaphones, you know, [13:39] they're very well known people. [13:40] Some of them again. [13:43] I think a lot of them are kind of drawn there. [13:45] They're not excited about Joe Biden, and it's not that they're [13:49] necessarily behind everything. [13:51] RFK Jr. Is selling because it's still unclear. [13:54] Like, we said, what exactly he selling for the most part, [13:56] but they like having an alternative and what they're really [13:59] drawn to I think, is being able to discuss these pet issues [14:03] with a lot of them have as well. [14:04] You know, Alicia Silverstone. [14:06] The actress was very well-presented. [14:08] Maxine organization to do, you know, which is called the Children's [14:11] Health defense fund. [14:12] So it's like $8 [14:13] around the idea of children and like, [14:15] you know, but you know what kind of saving the children. [14:18] Other people like what he says about censorship, [14:21] if it has been a very long ongoing debate, [14:24] especially last couple years about people being canceled [14:26] about people who, you know, who decides, [14:28] what information will be on Twitter. [14:31] You know, this is the kind of free speech, [14:32] absolutist, Ian must file people. [14:35] He, he basically just because of his name and because of the [14:39] way she is, she's basically giving all these people a platform [14:43] in order to discuss need ideas in a way that you would never [14:45] have with even friends with anyone who was kind of in the current [14:49] political mainstream and so people, you know, [14:52] must wants to have a conversation, where are FID? [14:57] You and your ma must keep that. [14:59] What do you think and do boss was thrilled to tell him what [15:01] he thought? And so he is I think that's the reason to talk to him. [15:05] This very unlikely Coalition is partly is left because [15:08] people most people don't want you to feel hear what are P. [15:12] Junior things in terms of X in the country, [15:14] but he's presenting an opportunity to have these conversations. [15:18] Interesting. So I should report even most members of his family, [15:22] don't support what he's doing, they've written not bad saying you [15:25] don't he's sort of using the Kennedy name but he does seem [15:29] to be getting traction letters. [15:30] Consistently. Now in a lot of these early polls of the Democratic [15:34] primary. He's in solid double digits, as high as 20%, [15:37] should we be taking him seriously as a candidate, [15:40] could he win? [15:42] Well, that's a good question. [15:44] I think there aren't many people challenging Joe Biden. [15:48] So, I think, in terms of polls, [15:49] he had a lot of name recognition again. [15:51] Kennedy people at, you know, you talked to both theirs and they [15:54] say, Okay, lot of people are just saying, [15:56] yes, I would support him because they aren't excited about [15:59] Biden. And the Kennedy name means something, [16:01] but he is. [16:02] Attracting like I was skeptical, but he is attracting [16:05] a interesting amount of support. [16:07] I spoken to a lot of people who either didn't vote in the last [16:11] election or, you know, just just kind of seemed for four for [16:15] different reasons. Motivated about this guy and he is running [16:19] what he calls kind of. [16:20] But you know he's he's going a lot of podcast, [16:22] he's kind of attracting. [16:23] He's really, he's spending. [16:25] He's getting a lot of oxygen from a lot of new mediums not that [16:29] new but that aren't really use as much and campaigning. [16:32] It's a lot of people basically listening to him. [16:34] You know, he's recently gone on Joe Rogan 11 million people [16:37] listen to every episode of an average. [16:39] And so that's a lot of people for someone like Dim Hue. [16:43] Four years ago was completely on the fringes and nobody would [16:45] believe I have on their platform just to talk about some pretty [16:49] dangerous conspiracy theories, you know, the doctors and everything. [16:53] You know, this is going to get people killed and he says, [16:55] he told me straight up, he said a running for president, [16:58] makes it hard for me to be censored it. [17:00] So he's kind of doing this to an extent to be listened to. [17:03] And when you talk to him, you really get the sense that he was. [17:07] He was very upset and very hurt. [17:10] And by all these, by family members, [17:12] by the political establishment by one, turning their backs [17:15] on someone, they used to call during campaign season 2 indoors [17:17] though. You know? [17:17] And so, he feels like he's an element, [17:20] he's doing what he's meant to be doing. [17:22] And I do just by going out there and constantly, [17:26] not refusing a single interview going on every podcast. [17:28] I don't think you can win, but I think he's exposing his. [17:33] Real goal seemed to me to also just expose the most people [17:36] that he can to the ideas. [17:37] It sounds like it's almost a form of indication for him. [17:42] We're right at the end of your pace that, [17:44] that, that his candidacy made may say more about America [17:47] in 2023 than that about him specifically, [17:49] what to you, is the larger phenomenon that he represent. [17:54] I think he's giving know this is a it started, [17:58] it was started before covid but it really became bullied [18:01] a parent's most people during covid-19 LeSabre types discussed [18:08] we can call it conspiracy theories and call it this information, [18:11] but really wanting to be out there challenging challenging. [18:16] The kind of what they would call the mainstream narrative [18:19] about whether it's covid-19 is a lot of kind of anti-establishment [18:22] contrarian. People who have pretty, you give a big platforms [18:26] where we know pretty well off. [18:28] And they want to be having this conversation these conversations [18:30] in a political context and he's basically giving them the excuse [18:34] to do that. [18:34] And so I think that, you know, [18:36] people love to stuff in this kind of stuff. [18:37] People have a lot of the pandemic, [18:39] the disruption of it. [18:40] And just, you know, just the amount of confusion that they was [18:44] with the health maintenance with everything else. [18:46] You know, people had a lot of legitimate questions about that. [18:49] It also allow you to give an opening for a lot of conspiracy [18:53] theories. [18:54] How deep in distress of government of government agencies [18:57] of the government, telling you what to do and, [18:59] you know, the back seat again. [19:01] See, mended kind of only expanded that and he used that to his [19:05] Advantage because he's basically, you know, he, [19:08] he, he and many other people's want to keep forgetting [19:11] what happened during covid and you know, [19:14] with everything with his 2020 election, January 6th, [19:18] very big moment, the truck, this moment happened and these [19:21] people want to keep discussing it and kind of what they want [19:23] to say is we were right so he's kind of you know that we [19:26] were right about this you know they said that you should wear [19:29] a mask and then if it doesn't understand some people want to keep [19:33] discussing it. A lot of people who really fell into those things. [19:36] You know lost family members over at lost jobs over it and you [19:39] know they were ostracized by people and now he's getting [19:42] them a chance to kind of be kind of Vindicated and so I'm a [19:46] very high platform discussion of these things which a year ago [19:50] probably wouldn't be getting another option is such a Sitting [19:54] face. Thank you so much and smiling. ```json [{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"OpinionNewsArticle","@id":"https://time.com/6289037/robert-f-kennedy-jr-wrong-about-vaccines/","mainEntityOfPage":{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https://time.com/6289037/robert-f-kennedy-jr-wrong-about-vaccines/"},"headline":"Robert F Kennedy Jr. Is Dead Wrong About Vaccines","datePublished":"2023-06-22T10:00:14.000Z","dateModified":"2026-10-19T07:24:39.811Z","description":"There is no point in debating RFK Jr. on vaccines. He's wrong and has been proven so many times before.","url":"https://time.com/6289037/robert-f-kennedy-jr-wrong-about-vaccines/","keywords":["health","freelance"],"thumbnailUrl":"https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt52137065c65f14de/698a3e124ee262781131b7f5/GettyImages-1496170212.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=1200:675&height=675","author":[{"@type":"Person","name":"Edward Nirenberg","jobTitle":null,"url":"https://time.com/author/edward-nirenberg/"},{"@type":"Person","name":"Gavin Yamey","jobTitle":"Yamey is a physician and professor of global health and public policy at Duke University","url":"https://time.com/author/gavin-yamey/"}],"articleSection":"Ideas","image":[{"@type":"ImageObject","url":"https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt52137065c65f14de/698a3e124ee262781131b7f5/GettyImages-1496170212.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=1200:675&height=675","width":1200,"height":675,"headline":"Michael Smerconish Hosts A SiriusXM Town Hall With Democratic Presidential Candidate Robert F. 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