--- title: What I Learned From Colin Powell description: TIME co-owner Marc Benioff reflects on what he learned about leadership and business from Colin Powell canonical: https://time.com/6109886/colin-powell-marc-benioff/ author: Marc Benioff article:opinion: true article:content_tier: free article:published_time: 2021-10-24T13:30:23.000Z article:modified_time: 2026-10-14T09:15:57.984Z article:section: Ideas og:title: What I Learned From Colin Powell og:description: TIME co-owner Marc Benioff reflects on what he learned about leadership and business from Colin Powell og:url: https://time.com/6109886/colin-powell-marc-benioff/ og:site_name: TIME og:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt3ee7ae40f986b2ab/698a1e02b3fce3665b0c870c/colin-powell-marc-benioff-3.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 og:image:width: 2400 og:image:height: 1350 og:image:alt: colin-powell-marc-benioff-3 og:type: article twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: What I Learned From Colin Powell twitter:description: TIME co-owner Marc Benioff reflects on what he learned about leadership and business from Colin Powell twitter:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt3ee7ae40f986b2ab/698a1e02b3fce3665b0c870c/colin-powell-marc-benioff-3.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 ---  # What I Learned From Colin Powell > Sponsored content. 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It explains how TIME's journalism is made, from the first pitch through the editorial decisions behind a finished story or cover. #### How can I read about how TIME chooses its covers? Inside TIME is the newsletter where TIME's Editor-in-Chief explains cover selection and the editorial reasoning behind major stories. It is free at time.com/newsletters. #### Who is the editor of TIME? Sam Jacobs is TIME's Editor-in-Chief. He writes Inside TIME, a twice-weekly newsletter about the newsroom's reporting and editorial decisions. #### Is Inside TIME free? Yes. Inside TIME is a free newsletter, available at time.com/newsletters. A paid TIME subscription is separate and available at time.com/subscribe-agent. ### Sources * TIME Newsletters: [time.com/newsletters](/c/time-nl-inside-2026q3/newsletters?i=f303da9b-a56b-4f59-8632-0292c38661f5&cr=time-nl-inside-2026q3-v1) ## Video: May 2012 - 10 Questions for Colin Powell [Watch (HLS stream): May 2012 - 10 Questions for Colin Powell](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/lhTwCBTd.m3u8) (6:12)  _Published 2012-05-22. Former Secretary of State Colin Powell talks about the Iraq war, why longer terms in Congress aren't better, and the time he almost ran for president_ by [Marc Benioff](https://time.com/author/marc-benioff/) ## Marc Benioff Benioff is Salesforce Chair and CEO, TIME owner, and a global environmental and philanthropic leader Oct 24, 2021 1:30 PM UTC Former Secretary of State Colin Powell talks about the Iraq war, why longer terms in Congress aren't better, and the time he almost ran for president by [Marc Benioff](https://time.com/author/marc-benioff/) ## Marc Benioff Benioff is Salesforce Chair and CEO, TIME owner, and a global environmental and philanthropic leader Oct 24, 2021 1:30 PM UTC In many ways, we came from completely different worlds.[ Colin Powell](https://time.com/6107732/colin-powell-dead-covid-19-complications/) was born in Harlem, raised in the South Bronx and, as a young R.O.T.C. cadet in the late 1950s, endured the injustice of the segregated South. I was born in San Francisco and grew up in the 1970s amid the summer of love, marches for women’s rights, and where neighbors proudly flew rainbow flags. He rose through the ranks of the military and [Washington](https://time.com/6107901/colin-powell-legacy/) with a deep respect for institutions, hierarchy and tradition. I first made my mark building adventure games for the Atari 800 and later by starting my own software company in an industry that celebrates innovation and breaking old models with new, transformative technologies. But when our paths unexpectedly crossed in 1997, Colin Powell helped change the way I see business and the role of companies in the world. I was in Philadelphia for the President’s Summit for America’s Future, chaired by Powell and his nonprofit, America’s Promise, dedicated to lifting up at-risk youth. Five living presidents and the top 100 CEOs in the world were in attendance. I was a thirty-two year-old Silicon Valley techie looking for inspiration, and I’ve never forgotten what the former general said when he took the stage: “This is a time for each and every one of us to look into our own heart, to look into our own community, find someone who is in need, find someone who is wanting, find someone who is looking up to us, and for each and every one of us to reach down, to reach back, to reach across, to lift up a fellow American and put him on the road to success in this wonderful country of ours.“ Colin Powell told us that day that business could do more than simply make money. We had to be a force for good and a platform for change. It was the best advice I’d ever heard, and in the years that followed, he became one of the most important mentors in my life. I went back to work at my job at Oracle, a fast-growing software company, ready to change the world. Inspired by General Powell’s words, I came up with the idea for Oracle’s Promise, which would provide computers to schools all over the world. For our first project, we went into MacFarland Middle School in Washington D.C. — a school General Powell had adopted — to install computers. Unfortunately, it was 100 degrees and the busiest time of the year at Oracle and not enough people showed up to get the job done. So I called General Powell to let him know the situation. I said, “I’m sorry, I’m not going to be able to get the computers in. We have it all there, ready to go.” He hung up the phone on me. I knew we’d let him down. About 30 minutes later, a battalion of marines arrived and all of the computers were quickly installed. That day, he taught me not only what leadership and integrity meant—but also that it’s good to be a general. Shortly after, I founded Salesforce in 1999—inspired by General Powell to include a new model of philanthropy as a fundamental part of our company—pledging one percent of our equity, product and time to our communities. In 2014, I invited General Powell to [join our board of directors](https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/on-it/colin-powell-joins-salesforcecom-board/2014/03/17/223fb30c-adf1-11e3-a49e-76adc9210f19%5Fstory.html). I wanted our company to benefit from his wisdom, operational expertise and the core values that guided his extraordinary life.  General Colin Powell, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, reads during a trip to the USS Wasp, off the coast of Somalia, April 1993. David Hume Kennerly—Getty Images He served on our board for seven years. With his military discipline, he never missed a call. I came to appreciate the qualities that presidents of both parties clearly valued in him—his integrity, his honesty, his pragmatism and his focus on problem-solving. He called me Marc, but I always called him “Sir.” When he offered his advice—whether on the importance of transparency or communicating clearly so people know where you stand—I realized that he was still mentoring me. He often told me, “You recruit a soldier, but you retain a family.” I’ve tried to follow his example, building a culture that brings our families and communities along with us. General Powell was incredibly passionate about helping veterans, especially the enlisted troops, and inspired the creation of [Salesforce Military](https://veterans.force.com/s/), a job training and career program for service members, veterans, and military spouses. Through his vision, we’ve reached 40,000 veterans, placed 1,200 in jobs, and built a network of 500 employers that help support their career success. He became part of our Salesforce family, we became close friends, and I relied on him tremendously. Colin Powell knew that, at this moment in history when there is so much public mistrust in institutions, leaders need to make trust one of their highest values. He was the first to admit that he wasn’t perfect. He acknowledged mistakes, held himself accountable and demanded the same of others. He [spoke out courageously](https://time.com/6107901/colin-powell-legacy/) when he felt our nation or its leaders were falling short of our ideals. When I screwed up, he let me know it, too. He knew that to build trust, companies need a purpose beyond profit. In one of his now-famous [13 leadership lessons](https://www.state.gov/dipnote-u-s-department-of-state-official-blog/colin-l-powells-thirteen-rules-of-leadership/), he explained that “great leaders inspire every follower at every level to internalize their purpose, and to understand that their purpose goes far beyond the mere details of their job.” Our world would be a more equal, just and sustainable place if more CEOs recognized that they have obligations not only to their shareholders, but to all their stakeholders, including employees, communities and the planet. Specifically, Colin Powell knew that business could not sit on the sidelines in the march for equality. As a board member, he often joined our all-hands conference calls with many of our 75,000 employees. On one call, after the brutal murder of George Floyd, he recalled being a young soldier fighting in Vietnam while his wife Alma, back home in Birmingham, Alabama, guarded their house at night from racist mobs led by police chief Bull Connor. “We’ve come a long way,” he told us, “but we’ve got a very long, long way to go yet.” Finally, Colin Powell knew that one of the best antidotes to inequality is education and that business has a responsibility to help. As a child of immigrants, he credited his parents and teachers with his meteoric rise. On our calls, he spoke with pride about his work with underserved youth and the [City College of New York](https://www.ccny.cuny.edu/colinpowellschool) where he graduated. Thanks to the philanthropy he helped to inspire, Salesforce has so far granted $120 million to public schools. We have “to do everything we can,” he told us, “to keep bringing these kids along.” Today, many CEOs I talk to struggle with how to have a purpose beyond profit. Many Americans feel we’re hopelessly divided as a country. Yes, these are difficult days. But I share Colin Powell’s perpetual optimism. Because if we need a lodestar for how to live and work and serve others, we could ask for no greater example than the trailblazer from the South Bronx who taught us to embrace our duty to each other—as neighbors, as Americans and as fellow human beings. _Marc Benioff is the co-owner of TIME and the chair and CEO of Salesforce_ ## Transcript [00:00] I'm Belinda Laska I'm an editor at large at Time [00:02] Magazine. I'm sitting here with a four star general who [00:06] is also a former National Security advisor, former [00:09] chairman of the joint chiefs of staff. Former secretary [00:11] of state, former teamster. The author of several books, [00:16] including a new one on leadership called It Worked for [00:18] Me. And one of the biggest fans in the world of the [00:22] movie, The Hustler. General Powell, thanks for being [00:25] here. Thank you very much, Belinda. Now, you say in [00:28] this book on leadership that the two months that you [00:31] spent mulling around for the, arguably the chief [00:35] leadership position in the world, leader of the [00:37] so- called free world. Was the most difficult two [00:40] months of your life. Yeah. Why is that. It was the most [00:42] difficult because, one, I never had had any political [00:46] aspirations, I'm a career soldier. I never really [00:49] belonged to a political party. I had views about things, [00:52] but I never spoke about them. But then I leave the [00:54] army, and suddenly my book comes out. And there's [00:56] this enormous interest in my running for office. And so [00:59] I had to think about it. And it was something of a [01:04] guilt trip that I felt on top of me. People said, you have [01:07] to do this. And I felt obliged. A soldier always wants to [01:10] do what he's supposed to do. But then it became very [01:13] clear because it was not a single morning that I woke [01:15] up. Or I put my feet on the floor and said this is right [01:19] for me, this is what I wanna do. I didn't want to do it. [01:22] Then you went on to, in that, during that campaign to [01:24] endorse President Obama. Do you think you might [01:28] endorse him again this time? I don't know, we'll see. [01:30] What I've always tried to do is look at the candidate of [01:34] both parties. But also to see what those candidates [01:37] represent. Cuz you're not only electing a person, [01:39] you're electing a movement, you're electing a platform, [01:43] you're electing a Vice President. And so, I always like [01:45] to take my time and examine all parts of the political [01:49] equation, and that's what I'll do this year. One of things [01:51] you talk about in your book is how you think members [01:54] of Congress stay on a little longer than they should. [01:57] Well you know we need congressional experience. We [02:00] need people who know how the system runs but it [02:03] seems to me that it really is not necessary to stay there [02:06] for an entire career. This really wasn't what the [02:08] founding fathers had in mind. For you to stay there for [02:10] your entire life and I think it's like we do in the army. [02:14] Move on and let some new people come in and they [02:17] come up and make the way clear. Anybody you'd like [02:20] to extend a personal invitation to leave? From [02:23] Congress, I'm saying. I don't have all of my stationary [02:27] with me so I don't [ LAUGH ] [ LAUGH ] A lot of the [02:30] leadership lessons you draw obviously are from the [02:33] military. I wonder what you think about the sort of [02:37] spate of military scandals we've had in the last couple [02:40] of months. The sex scandal in Columbia. Recently, [02:43] there were soldiers posing with remains. Is this a [02:47] failure of leadership, or is there something else going [02:50] on? You have to remember that the armed forces are [02:52] very large. Hundreds and hundreds of thousands of [02:55] young men and women. But most of them are very [02:59] disciplined, very well behaved. And if there was [03:03] a leader in the situation who saw this happening and [03:06] tolerated it. That is a failure of leadership and senior [03:09] leadership should do something about it. But all of [03:12] those things are being investigated. We don't, we don't [03:14] look past them. There's a chapter in your book, [03:16] chapter 35 where you say that the date February the [03:20] 5th, 2003 is burned on your brain as much as your [03:23] birthday. So, do you feel, even though it is not your [03:26] personal responsibility. Do you feel, guilt, over the, [03:30] over the war, over the lives that were lost in this [03:32] fruitless search for weapons for weapons of mass [03:34] destruction? I feel bad about any loss of life on either [03:38] side of a conflict. But it was a case where, the [03:42] intelligence information we're getting, made it quite [03:46] clear at the time, we thought. And the CIA stuck with [03:49] that assessment long after we didn't find anything. [03:52] They still believe that their judgments at the time were [03:54] correct. And since we based our case on those [03:58] judgments, And what we were hearing from others. [04:01] Then the President made the decision, and I think at [04:03] the time it was a justified decision based on what we [04:06] knew. How the war was fought and whether it was [04:08] fought correctly is another issue entirely. You say [04:12] that you were in Peru on 9 / 11. And you were in Asia [04:16] when some of the key decisions were made... Mm hm. [04:18] About CIA black sites. Do you think you would have, [04:21] things would have been different had you been in, [04:24] Amer, America on 9 / 11. Or when some of those... It [04:27] wouldn't have been any different on 9 / 11. I just wish [04:29] that, you know? [ INAUDIBLE ] it didn't take me eight [04:31] hours to... Get back? More than eight hours, about 12 [04:33] hours, when you figured [ INAUDIBLE ] getting the [04:35] plane ready. What about [ INAUDIBLE ]? There were [04:38] some things that took place with respect to [04:40] interrogation policies and, and detention policies that [04:45] didn't get full discussion. And maybe would have had [04:47] that full discussion had I been here and could have [04:51] Pushed it or participated in it. In chapter 16 you talk a [04:54] lot about how you revolutionized the State Department [04:57] in regard to the Internet. Mm- hm. Looking back now [05:00] on the Internet Age with Wikileaks, Anonymous, and [05:03] the speed. Just the speed at which you have to make [05:06] decisions now. Is it a net positive to [05:10] have the internet at your disposal? In terms of There's [05:13] no choice. It sometimes is very, very positive and [05:17] sometimes very, very negative. But if you're going to [05:20] live in the twenty- first century world, it's gonna keep [05:23] up with our kids. And you're gonna keep up with the [05:26] way the world is moving What I told my state [05:29] department friends. We have to move to a [05:31] transactional world. We've gotta have all the [05:35] information available to us. We don't make widgets. We [05:38] don't have an assembly line. What we work on here in [05:41] the state department is information. And our [05:43] information system, I kept emphasizing, we should try [05:47] to make it as good as Google or Wiki. And finally, do [05:50] you ever use Sir Colin? Only in the United Kingdom. Get [05:54] yourself a table at. It wouldn't be considered [05:57] appropriate here, and my British friends would not [06:01] consider it appropriate for me to use it here. It's [06:03] honorific. Sir Colin, thank you so much for being here. [06:05] Thank you my dear. 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