--- title: Sally Yates and Ted Cruz Have Heated Exchange Over Travel Ban | TIME description: During a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, former acting Attorney General Sally Yates and Senator Ted Cruz have a heated exchange on President Trump's travel ban. canonical: https://time.com/video/mF2QLTEg/ og:title: Sally Yates and Ted Cruz Have Heated Exchange Over Travel Ban og:description: During a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, former acting Attorney General Sally Yates and Senator Ted Cruz have a heated exchange on President Trump's travel ban. og:url: https://time.com/video/mF2QLTEg/ og:image: https://cdn.jwplayer.com/v2/media/mF2QLTEg/poster.jpg?width=720 og:type: video.other twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: Sally Yates and Ted Cruz Have Heated Exchange Over Travel Ban twitter:description: During a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, former acting Attorney General Sally Yates and Senator Ted Cruz have a heated exchange on President Trump's travel ban. twitter:image: https://cdn.jwplayer.com/v2/media/mF2QLTEg/poster.jpg?width=720 --- # Sally Yates and Ted Cruz Have Heated Exchange Over Travel Ban > Sponsored content. 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They are at time.com/newsletters and are separate from a paid subscription. ## Video: Sally Yates and Ted Cruz Have Heated Exchange Over Travel Ban [Watch (HLS stream): Sally Yates and Ted Cruz Have Heated Exchange Over Travel Ban](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/mF2QLTEg.m3u8) (4:09)  _Published 2017-05-09. During a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, former acting Attorney General Sally Yates and Senator Ted Cruz have a heated exchange on President Trump's travel ban._ --- Jul 27, 2023 9:54 PM UTC --- ## More From This Series [All Videos](https://time.com/video/) [Sally Yates' Testimony Before the Senate Judiciary Committee](/video/HrVWNxRb/) ### Sally Yates' Testimony Before the Senate Judiciary Committee [Ted Cruz Going on Obamacare](/video/qCwlcWRC/) ### Ted Cruz Going on Obamacare [U.S. Senator Ted Cruz at CPAC 2014](/video/QCynPJcw/) ### U.S. Senator Ted Cruz at CPAC 2014 --- ## Transcript Let's revisit the topic Mrs. Yates that you and Senator [ UNKNOWN ] were talking about. Okay. Is it correct that the constitution vests the executive authority in the president? Yes. And if an Attorney General disagrees with a policy decision of the president, a policy decision that is lawful Does the attorney- general have the authority to direct the Department of Justice to defy the president's order? I don't know whether the attorney- general has the authority to do that or not, but I don't think it would be a good idea. And that's not what I did in this case. Well, are you familiar with 8 USC section 1182? Not off the top of my head, no. Well it is the binding statutory authority for the executive order that you refused to implement and that led to your termination. So it certainly is a relevant and not obscure statute. [ LAUGH ]. By the expressed text of the statute it says quote. Whenever the President finds that the entry of any alien, or of any class of aliens in the United States would be detrimental to the interest of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens, or any class of aliens, as immigrants or non- immigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem appropriate. Would you agree that is broad statutory authorization? I would and I am familiar with that, and I'm also familiar with an additional provision of the INA that says no person shall receive preference or be discriminated against issuance of a VISA because of race, nationality or place of birth. That I believe was promulgated after the statue that you just quoted and that's been part of the discussion with the court, with respect to the INA is whether this more specific statute tramps that first one that you just described. But my concern wasn't on INA concern here it rather was a constitutional concern whether or not this The executive order here violated the Constitution, specifically with the establishment clause and equal protection and due process. There is no doubt the arguments you laid out are arguments that we can expect litigants to bring, participant litigants who disagree with the policy decision of the President. I would note on January 27th 2017 the Department of Justice issued an official legal decision, a determination by office of legal counsel that the executive order and I'll quote from the opinion, the proposed order is a approved with respect to form and legality. That's a determination from LLC. On January 27th, that it was legal. Three days later, you determined, using your own words, that although the LLC had opined on legality, it had not addressed whether it was, wise or Just And I also in that same directed Senator said that I was not convinced it was lawful. I also made the point that the office of OLC looks purely at the face of the document, and again, makes a determination as to whether there is some set of circumstances under which some portion of that EO would be enforceable, would be lawful. They importantly do not look outside the face of the document. And in this particular instance, particularly where we were talking about a fundamental issue of religious freedom not the interpretation of some arcane statute but religious freedom is was appropriate for us to look at the intent behind the President's actions. And the intent is laid out in his statements. Final very brief question. In the oer 200 years of the Department of Justice history Are you aware of any instance in which the Department of Justice has formally approved the legality of a policy and three days later, the attorney general has directed the department not to follow that policy and to defy that policy? I'm not. But I'm also not aware of the situation where the Office of Legal Council was advised to not to tell the attorney general. About and until after it was over. [ BLANK_AUDIO ] Thank you Miss Yates. I would note that might be the case if there's reason to suspect partisanship. 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