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They are at time.com/newsletters and are separate from a paid subscription. ## Video: Sara Bareilles & J.J. Abrams | TIME 100 Talks [Watch (HLS stream): Sara Bareilles & J.J. Abrams | TIME 100 Talks](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/UXVhaY9Z.m3u8) (23:59)  _Published 2020-08-13. Sara Bareilles & J.J. Abrams on how storytelling connects us. Interviewed by Ashley C. Ford, TIME100 Talks Correspondent_ --- Oct 3, 2023 5:25 PM UTC --- ## More From This Series [All Videos](https://time.com/video/) [Star Wars The Force Awakens - Official TV spot #13 \(2015\) J.J. Abrams](/video/vnCMZig4/) ### Star Wars The Force Awakens - Official TV spot #13 (2015) J.J. Abrams [Late Night Highlight: J.J. Abrams Reveals The First Word Spoken In ‘The Force Awakens’](/video/EGPtYX7Y/) ### Late Night Highlight: J.J. Abrams Reveals The First Word Spoken In ‘The Force Awakens’ [10 Questions for J.J. Abrams](/video/NrAlzm24/) ### 10 Questions for J.J. Abrams --- ## Transcript Welcome back to the show. I'm Ashleigh see for TIME 100 talks correspondent. And I'm joined today by filmmaker J.J. Abrams and singer songwriter Sara Bradley's. Welcome to the show. I kind of just want to start with the basics and ask, what have you guys been watching or listening to that's getting you through? Sara, can we start with you? I've been doing a lot of rewatching of things that have landed more escapism for me. I think I've been I've been leaning away from sort of the blood and guts of real life, which is really hard. So we've been watching a lot of superhero movies and The Watchmen was a new series to me that I had missed when it came out somehow, and that was just a miraculous find. And what I'm listening to right now is actually a lot of the material from little boys, because we're we've launched the cast album and we've just made my kinds of records. So I'm doing a lot of reviews of mixes and making tweaks and changes to that. So very self-involved from a free standpoint. It's really where I'm at. How about you, J.J.? Watching a lot of older movies with with our kids. And that's been really fun. And the thing that sort of, I think, had the most impact, which I hadn't heard when it first came out, was the 1619 project, which I thought was just remarkable. Yes, absolutely. Nikole Hannah-Jones really, as we say, put her foot in that. She really realized. That it was something else. It was just it was, I think, transformative. I agree. Little boys is a new Apple Plus TV series and a collaboration between the two of you. And the show follows a young singer songwriter as she navigates life in New York City. JJ I'm so familiar with your work in terms of other worlds, to be perfectly honest, and other beings and going out into space or having something like that happen. So what brought you back to New York City? This was really all Sarah and and Jessie Nelson who who created the show with Sarah. I mean, this was just me being a fan and loving Sarah's music and the way she expresses herself. I'm talking about you like you're not here, Sarah. There you are. And and I just, you know, it was just one of those things where when we met, we were talking about what it was to be, you know, a female singer songwriter and what it was to get there. It just felt like, well, that feels like something that would be as heartfelt and as moving as as, you know, as her music. And so I doggedly pursued, trying to put together, you know, a meeting where we could just talk about what it would be. Luckily, Sarah was interested and had a relationship with Jessie, having done a waitress together, and I think the two of them have just concocted this real sort of confection. It's kind of this it feels to me like a bit of a it's sort of like a romantic and incredibly funny and sweet kind of a modern day fairy tale. And I just love it. Sarah, you fell in love with the city when you got an apartment here in around 2013, right? So what does it mean for you to be telling such a hopeful tale about the city right now in the midst of everything that the city has been through? It's it feels remarkable to get a chance to kind of revisit a New York that we all know and love in a way that somehow feels suddenly nostalgic. Like, it's this, you know, the fairy tale element that J.J. is referring to suddenly feels amplified because so much of what we all love about New York is not available to us right now. And so it's it's really it feels like almost in this strange way, like the perfect time for this show. It's it's hopeful. It's heart forward. It's not cynical. It's about good people being kind to each other and like doing the best they can. And it's it's something that Jesse and I always really connected on was our our hopefulness. And I think it's one of the things that our main character best talks about in the pilot episode is that she gets sort of called out for being earnest. And I think, you know, there's an element of that that we all connect to Jessie. Jessie, J.J. and I, and that feels like there's there's a space for that in in art making and, and storytelling that, you know, we don't want to kick out the good guys when. But I also was so inspired by the series Felicity, which is one of the first things that I knew of J.J. And so that this sort of hopefulness of that series was a big inspiration for why I wanted to make anything at all, because I'm such a big fan of that. So good job, Jane there. Yeah, We're currently not able to gather at things like concerts or movie theaters in the same way. It kind of makes me miss being a teenager, being in high school when I was introduced to Felicity. But we're still coming together via screens like we are now virtual watch parties generally being connected by storytelling. JJ In moments like these, do you think the stories we tell and share have an outsized impact or outsized importance? I think that given that we have in a lot of ways fewer distractions, I think that everything is taking on a bit of a different relationship. You know, like the the relationship we have with time itself is different. You know, I think that like what it is to go through a day or a week or a month isn't the same anymore, at least during this time. And I think that that with stories I mean, there was, of course, binge watching long before this, but now it's like there's there's just less going on that I think distracts us. So I think that stories in a lot of ways do land harder and deeper and resonate more than than they would normally. Sarah, I'd like to ask you the same question, but about the music we're listening to because there is so much of it and it's everywhere and it's coming at us in a million different directions. But right now people are not really listening to music necessarily on a commute. They're sitting and listening to it in their living room, like how is how do you see that changing our experience of music? I think what I felt like I noticed was in the initial kind of weeks and months of the pandemic, there was everybody got quiet and people felt a sort of reverence about not releasing new music. It almost felt like it was crass in a way, to sort of offer anything. And I know that a lot of my artist friends, myself, very much included, felt like it's just not a time to say anything. We all have to just sort of process and take this in. And now I see the incredible value of that, what comfort it brings, what point of connection it offers, how it makes people feel connected to the world again. So, you know, there's big records coming out now and it and and I see myself listening differently because I'm tend to be someone who's really distracted. And I was like, skip through. But I've listened to albums front to back again, which is kind of again in this past, a nostalgic practice. And so I think maybe not more than ever, but just because we're experiencing the world through a different lens right now, it's just, it's re highlighting how valuable people's connection to the world is through art, through television, through books, through music. It's just it's the value of creation. How do you think this moment could change the film industry? Long term? I think that it's difficult in general, I think, for people to really imagine getting past the moment that they're in. I think it's just sort of almost human nature in a weird way. And I feel like it's not to say that we don't all know we will get past this and we will, but it's just it's impossible to imagine it right this second. And I'm sure that that's been true during other pandemics as well. But they have and we will. And I think that there's another human natural need to gather and to to be together. And I think, you know, virtual is great. And I'm sort of vaguely obsessed with sort of virtual listening parties and virtual movie watching and like, it's kind of an amazing thing how that weirdly works, but it's not the same. So I think that that it inevitably will and must return theater, you know, concerts, movies, people need to get together and experience art as a group. Do you think this. Moment in time could accelerate the ongoing shift to digital platforms? I mean, we already see it happening with deals that some studios are making with some exhibitors. It's already accelerating everything. I mean, obviously far beyond the entertainment business. I think the way business works, where people are realizing what is actually necessary in terms of travel or workspace. And I do think that obviously things will also probably return eventually more to the way things were probably than not. But in terms of of of distribution, there are a lot of, I think, things that are happening that are happening much faster than they would normally for sure. Sarah, how do you think the past few months are going to change the theater experience? Well, I think what I see is just the hunger to return is just mounting and mounting. So I think one of the gifts of this time is that the how how revealing it is that screens are just such a flimsy stand in surrogate for a real life. We just miss like like you were saying that we just miss being in a room with people. I think they're on multiple levels. I think the theater community is doing a lot of introspection and reevaluation about, you know, the kinds of stories that are being told and representation. And but then in terms of a logistical standpoint, I, I would love to see a trend towards making theater more available. You know, if it were to sort of do a massive reset, that ticket prices become less exorbitant. So so the theater community can diversify and expand and be more inclusive. Just even from that perspective, what I see is a bunch of people just waiting to be able to perform and express and connect again. So I think, you know, the hunger is there. I'm seeing with the little chattering about tours, getting back up and running and, you know, some some version of it is is starting. And I think people are, you know, if there's any place this it's going to be really inventive about how are we going to make this work. I know they're being very cautious as well. And nobody wants to fill a theater with people in a in a place that's not safe. So, you know, I think it's going to we've got a long way to go, probably, but it might not be the worst thing in the world that we have to press reset or on some different levels. One of the things that might be possible with a reset, as you say, is expanding some of that representation in a myriad of different ways in terms of socioeconomic status, in terms of race, in terms of gender, out of all those things. How do we get more different kinds of people into the theater? And there are a lot of young people right now who definitely want to be getting into the fields that you to work in. How are you guys talking when you get the opportunity to give advice and to tell people who want to get started, like what they should know, to just get started when they're facing an uphill battle, especially right now, as I think a lot of creatives are like, how is there going to be a place for me in this world when I'm ready to enter? How are you talking to people who are worried about that? Look, I will say that it's a that's a multi-faceted question. I think that in terms of of people getting started in the business in general, I think that the key is, I know this sounds crazy, but the key is to actually do the work. There are a lot of people who talk about doing the work and there are far few who actually do the work. So if you're if you're one of those who does the work, you're already in somewhat rarified territory. And I think that then you know, making sure you have a community of people you trust who can give you honest response. I think doing everything you can and anything you can to get access to people who are doing the things that you're doing on any level, because that becomes something that almost invariably leads to something else. It might not be exactly what you expect, but it's it's usually something the other and I would argue, you know, potentially, you know, equally important or if not more important aspect of what you ask is the sort of inclusivity and the idea of representation. And I think that, you know, it is an undeniable moment we are in where I think in in in so many different aspects of life, but certainly in the entertainment business, I think people are realizing that it is it is absolutely good for business. It is. It is right in terms of the interest of the art that is being created to not have the creation of the stories or music films. A you an elitist thing. And I know as a white male who understands how hard it is to tell stories and make it in the business, I can't even begin to fathom how hard it would be to be black in this business, to be black and female in this business, to do work, you know, with the obstacles that that that people face. It's incredible. And so, you know, Katie and I at Bad Robot, you know, while we do all sorts of different things and have tried all different things and we know that we have we will continue to make mistakes and figure it out. But it is it is absolutely a value and a priority for us to make sure that that the projects we're working on, the artists we're working with, look the way the world looks. And and I know that there's a natural tendency to look to people who sort of look like you and feel like you're the sort of usual suspects in every aspect of what people do in business. And I think that the key is to look around the room and ask yourself, do the people with whom I'm creating look like me? And if the answer is yes, you probably haven't done enough to find the people. Is it harder? Sometimes, for sure. But you have to do that work to bring people to the table and who will let you be at the table so that you can create a community that looks more the way the world looks than not? I totally agree with everything you said I was I was going to say about my best advice to young artists is always go play for young songwriters, for example. Go play your music. That's the only way you're going to learn who you are, what your voice is, what your perspective is as an artist. Go play, go make mistakes, go do it wrong. Go feel embarrassed, Go fight for it. Go like all of that. The relationship between you and your craft can only be built between you and your craft. It almost has nothing to do with the industry. And there's a real. I know that the hunger to create something that is commercially viable is, of course, there. Everyone wants to be able to make a living doing the thing they love. But I think I often remind people that like, you can love it and also not make a living from it like it can be. You can make things because you need to make things, and that's the voice of an artist. And it might not be your primary source of income and that there's no shame in that. There's no failure in that, but that the motivation to create kind of has to feed itself a little bit. And yes, I couldn't agree more. I mean, it's this incredible moment of reckoning about how narrow minded so many of us have been in terms of our hiring practices, in terms of the stories we choose to tell, the things we gravitate towards, the things we watch, the things we listen to, like just this blessing, this very uncomfortable blessing of waking up. So I think that it's absolutely something I think about as an artist, you know, who makes music with me on stage. It's a very intentional kind of evolution of of my music making, was to remember that to just plain not everybody in the room should look like me. We should. But it only gets better by expanding the perspective of who is creating together. And it's one of the things I feel really proud about with Little Voice is that our our cast is really, you said this well before Jay-Z Jay-Z about it reflects that the city of New York and Jessie always said that, too. It's like it looks like New York because New York is this incredible place of every size, shape, color and background, diversity, religion. It just it's all kind of, you know, on top of each other. And so I do feel it's one of the things that I love about this show in this moment, too, is that it it does reflect the city, I think, in a really beautiful way. JJ What have you. Learned from working with Sarah on Little Voice? Well, I don't think that first of all, I think that she makes it look easy. I think that not everyone is able to translate one artform as well as one may do it to another. And the idea that that, you know, this this incredibly, you know, spirited and confused and and maybe adrift for a little while. But but ultimately, you know, big hearted and certainly, you know, well-intentioned and talented young woman, you know, is going through this journey. It's you know, it's one thing to sort of tell that in a song, which again, is is, you know, when when done as well as Sarah does, it is sort of a superpower and sort of miraculous. But to then be able to tell that story, of course, with Jesy Nelson as a series with these characters to me in the show makes me feel good. And what I've learned watching, you know, Sarah work is and it certainly has not been easy. You know, at every stage there have been issues and things that that I know we've all had to grapple with. But I've learned that, A, it is possible to translate that heart and that soul from one former to another and and the power of of tenacity and making sure that, you know, sticking to your guns and holding on to things that you believe in that you want to see done a certain way. Again, I tip my hat to to Sarah, to you and to Jessie, because, you know, those two did the heavy lifting of the show. And I got to, you know, read scripts and watch dailies and watch cuts and and have weirdly, the same feeling watching those dailies that I used to have when I would watch dailies of Felicity, which was you know, these people that that, you know, you want to be in those rooms with them. You want to you want to be their friend. You want to you want to know those people. And in a in an incredibly, you know, cynical time where I think people can certainly in social media, often anonymously sort of get points for how cruel you are and there's a kind of sort of normalcy to that. And certainly we see that politically and certainly we see that, you know, in social media. I think it is, for me, a kind of an incredible breath of fresh air to watch a show that is sort of unabashedly sweet and unabashedly kind and humane. And that really speaks to the soul of Sarah. Sarah, what have you learned working with J.J.? I many, many things. First of all, I love that Jimmy makes things feel possible with just like, Well, what? What's the idea? Like, let's. I feel like you talked about it with the his metaphor of, like, you just have to make the thing right here just to make the thing that you love. And it has to sit right here and you sort of have to ignore everything that's happening out here and just make the thing that you love. But to keep your attention really intent on on preserve being the heart of the thing you're making. And inevitably with television, which was so much I mean, I've cried on his shoulder and just like it's so much like soul crushing. It's just so much bigger than anything I've done, than just the sheer number of people on the set is just an enormous number of people. But to be able to really we did have to fight hard. And I give Jessie Nelson so much credit for this too. We were very bonded in this way about trying to zero in on what our little voice was telling us and really trying to fight for that. And you win some, you lose some. And that's kind of, I think, the nature of the beast here. But it was I really took to heart J. J's willingness to take chances on new voices and to trust. There's an incredible amount of trust in to trust your collaborators that they're going to sort of rise to meet the challenge. And I also think that you're playful. JJ Like you, your it would have been really easy for me to get very serious about this project because it felt really big and important, and it's the biggest thing I've ever done and it's nice to work with someone who has had so much experience because he helps hold it lightly in a way. And I think sometimes it's good for the work. So I like and what can I say? Sarah, JJ, thank you both so much for joining us today. This has been really, really fun. I really enjoyed myself. Thank you. Thank you. 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