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They are at time.com/newsletters and are separate from a paid subscription. ## Video: Let's Talk About Facebook Phones [Watch (HLS stream): Let's Talk About Facebook Phones](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/QyfCMqJt.m3u8) (24:06)  _Published 2013-04-05. TIME Tech's Doug Aamoth, Harry McCracken and Jared Newman discuss Facebook Home._ --- Jul 27, 2023 3:32 PM UTC --- ## More From This Series [All Videos](https://time.com/video/) [From an FBI Investigation to Facebook’s Bumpy Year: Let’s Break Down Everything You Need to Know This Week](/video/VoD93c3P/) ### From an FBI Investigation to Facebook’s Bumpy Year: Let’s Break Down Everything You Need to Know This Week [Let's Talk About iOS 7, OS X Mavericks and More](/video/3YGidMLr/) ### Let's Talk About iOS 7, OS X Mavericks and More [Will You 'Like' the Facebook Phone?](/video/xsAkuo30/) ### Will You 'Like' the Facebook Phone? --- ## Transcript [ MUSIC ] I'm Doug [ INAUDIBLE ]. I'm in Boston joining Jerry Newman in Cincinnati and Harry MacCracken in San Francisco. Harry you were at the Facebook home even today. let's talk about Facebook home. What happened? Well they finally announce this thing that had been rumored for. I think at least three years or so. They built the Facebook phone. Facebook- centric phone. Except they were really quite adamant that they weren't announcing a Facebook phone, even though one of the things they did announce at the event is a phone that kind, of boots up into Facebook. Really, the overall thing that they were talking about was, was Facebook Home, which is essentially an alternative home screen for, for almost any Android phone, which is organized your, your Facebook contacts and their news rather than about apps. The, the app launcher is there, but it's secondary. They're, I mean, they're officially supporting a bunch of major phones, so if you have something like a Galaxy S3 or an S4, or an, an HTC 1, you should be good to go. But probably not some of the more obscure models and definitely not the older ones. And just ice cream sandwich and jelly bean. [ INAUDIBLE ] rolls out a lot of phones. So this is the, this is the challenge that Facebook has already. They have to convince people to use this or buy the $ 99 phone but if you don't have the $ 99 phone, you need to be savvy enough to know which phone it works on and then you go to the Google Play store and download it and then you have to install ( no period ) Which is effectively, effectively a launcher, which probably a lot of people haven't had experience with yet. Jarad, you've played around with launchers, right? You've been using android and you've installed different launchers on your phone? Yeah and actually when I was writing the post today I kind of like, it took me a while to even do that section where I was explaining what Facebook home is. Because, I was like, okay general audience, do they even know what launchers are? How many of them have actually like tried using one, is that gonna be scary for people to begin with, to like install this thing that actually changes the way that their phone works like on a very fundamental level, so You know, yeah I've used launchers, and I, I actually don't use them that often, because I'd rather just have the basic thing, and it kind of worries me having this other thing running on top of it. So I think that's going to be a challenge for them as far as getting people to install the software. That being said once, that, once you, once you have this set up, or if you buy the the HTC, first which is what the phones, the first phone is being called to, to run Facebook, it's actually a very simple operating system, you're not operating system, you can't say that, it's a launch, very simple Speaker. [ LAUGH ] aahh Speaker. Layer over the top of the operating system, which is android but, it's very simple, it's your lock screen is like a ten burnsesk ( sp ) swooping Photos of whatever people are saying in your news feed and then you can go to messaging or you can go to your apps. And that's basically it. Right, Eric? Yeah, that's pretty much it. I mean, the you can see status updates and photos. You can chat with this chat heads feature. And you can jump into apps. And that's, that's pretty much what it does so far. They do say they plan to do updates every month, so in theory, at least, a year from now this might be a lot richer. And eventually, it seems like it might become a full- blown Facebook experience. Right now, it's handing you off, in a lot of cases, sending it to the standard Android Facebook app. And the chat head, the chat head, the, the chat heads feature actually looks pretty awesome. It's, everyone's had this experience whether using their phone whether it's Android or iOS or, you know, Windows phone. You're doing something and a text message comes in or a message comes in from someone, you'd have to switch to the messaging app to respond to it. This, the chat heads feature is, eh, Jared, you want to explain it a little more? It's, it's an overlay on top. You don't have to actually exit out of the, into another So basically, when somebody sends you a text message or a Facebook message you see this little circle pop up with the person's face on it. And it shows a little flash of a text message and then you can, you can move it around or you can just tap on it to see more and then you see the whole, conversation. But it all happens on top of whatever app you're currently using. So, it's not, it's not like you have to switch between apps. It's kind of like, it's almost like a window, you know, on a, on a desktop computer in a sense. And you know I do think people will want that as phones become more powerful to have something that seems a little bit more like, windowing and multi- tasking and actually there's, there's something kinda similar in Android now where if you get a text message in the notification window you can do a quick reply. From there without leaving the app that you're in. But this seems almost a little better, cuz you can, you know you can have it, and sort of leave it in there in the corner. And you know ignore it for a few moments, and then go back to it, and. So it's, it's kinda nice I think. So here it, the ultimate question, who is this phone for? Who, who will gravitate toward this Facebook phone? Well, one of the interesting questions here is, Mark Zuckerberg, spent a lot of time explaining why, today you don't want a phone that's application centric. You want one that's people and sharing centric. And I had this real strong sense of deja vu, because, whenever I go to a window. The [ UNKNOWN ] event I got the same pitch. I heard that pitch for the [ UNKNOWN ] I heard that pitch for something called Motor Blur which Motorola did a few years ago. And I feel like it has not yet demonstratively true, that all that many people a lot of people [ UNKNOWN ] phone and they had me. When Mark Zuckerberg tells you it's a good idea. It sounds really convincing for a moment, but I, I feel like it is yet to be proved whether it's a mainstream idea. But anybody who wants this, it's clearly somebody who is sort of people- centric who's deeply into Facebook, who's willing to give up some of the power of Android, because, right now this doesn't support widgets. As a UI goes it's pretty basic. It's certainly not for the person who likes using android because android is deeply customizable. And the UI is tweak- able. I think that's why the HTC first Is you know, it's not a $ 200, $ 300 super phone. It's a little bit more basic and a little bit more simple and it has a small screen by current standards. [ CROSSTALK ] I think there's a, there's sort of like an idealized vision sometimes that Facebook has of people, of how people use stuff, and even like the, the Chatheads thing. You know how, how often am I going to be like using my phone, and then fielding lots of text messages at the same time? I mean, this may just be me, but like you know I don't get a ton of text messages a day, so it's not like, it's I think it's a cool feature, but I don't think it's like this major problem that I'm having when I use a phone that needs to be solve. And I think sometimes that happens with Facebook. Even like, when you go back to graph search. Like, it's useful, but I don't see it as this like utopia where we're all looking up things that our friends like and the places that they're going. And, I don't know, it, I think that, they want us to use it a certain way, and it doesn't always work out like that. Like the 15 or 16- year- old version of me. Back in, I had this when I was like a kid in high school, like you want to know where everyone is, and you're like trying to find all your friends on Friday night. Like this is a great phone for that. Or, this is a good phone for people, some people equate Facebook as, like the Facebook, Facebook is the internet for people. Some people just go to Facebook. And that's all they use. That's how they communicate with people. That's how they find stuff. They occasionally, you know, click a link and then go read something on a web page, but all they do on their phones is Facebook. So it may be even older people that are getting onto Facebook and they're like, I want to see pictures of my grandkids and my, my grandson is. My son is my only friend on Facebook so, oh, now the pictures are popping up so now I can see, oh I don't have to do anything. It's sliding like on a PPS like that kind of stuff. Like this is a good phone for, it's so simple for people like that or people who want to be constantly connected. But I think about, using something like this myself. If this, if Facebook became useful enough To me to use a phone. I would have to do a lot of work to cut a lot of people out of Facebook that I don't wanna see all the time. Like this would be very distracting, and I would have to turn through a lot of crud all day long to get to stuff that was actually important to me. Harry, am I off base? Do you wanna have a word fight about this or is, am I, am I wrong? Well in theory at least, if it's not gonna like, splay everything from full blown facebooks, newsspeed and [ INAUDIBLE ]. There's at least a little bit of intelligence at [ INAUDIBLE ]. To show your stuff, you are more likely to be interested in. Um, but yeah, I've had, like, you know, your right, especially about untested ADL. I, I think really the most, in a lot of ways this is kind of ASEC and rather than waiting until they had something, all that ambitious that they ship something to ASEC which they'll build upon which is kind of the, the Facebook way of doing things. But this is really the first time that Facebook has designed a user interface purely for mobile devices. Up until now Facebook and a phone has been an awful lot like Facebook on a pc, only smaller. Its been pretty obvious that that's probably not the way ultimately we're gonna be doing social stuff on a phone. We do need interfaces designed for a phone. And at least Facebook, with Facebook. com, is gonna have the opportunity to rethink everything about its interface and if they really do add to it every month, it's gonna be interesting to see where they take us. So that's the thing. You have Facebook on the desktop, you have Facebook on mobile devices which, right, right, right now. Sort of resembeles, or resembles enough facebook on the desktop. And now you have this facebook home which is this mobile skin which is totally unlike how facebook works on mobile and desktop right now. And people on Facebook, Jaryd, do you people, a lot of peopel on facebook strike you as they love change, they love when facebook changes up the interface and [ LAUGH ] stuff like that? I mean, what kind of problems can we expect. When people are, I, I just don't see people taking this at first and being like this is, cause it's so radically different from Facebook, the regular Facebook interface people are used to. Yeah, well, I guess it goes back to, you know, the launcher being a, stumbling block for people. I keep thinking back to the other day You know, my, my sister in law, wanted to, me to disable incoming text messages from popping up on the iPad. It's like, you got up to settings and you press one button. And it's like, that's a, that's like a. A hard, not, not technically difficult, but people just don't get around to doing it. Like they don't, they don't really wanna do stuff. So like, telling somebody to go install a launcher, is, unlikely to happen for a large number of people. And, I'm, I'm assumming people who do take the initiative will be open to having that experience, because, you know, they They're kind of taking a plunge. Yeah so that being said, the facebook comments looks slick right? It looks pretty good overall. I mean it's beautiful looking. They said they gave it a lot of polish. They did not lack em, Folks who are the demo really touch it all that so much. So most of what I know I know from watching a Facebook employee demo it for me, but they certainly did emphasize that that they were trying to do something smooth and elegant. I wonder about battery life too, with all the constant. You have constant updates in the background. You have constant. You know, they, what they say is gonna, it's gonna, it's gonna serve updates while the phone is off, or in sleep mode right? Is that, was, am I, missing something, or is that, yes? Speaker. No, I asked about that, I mean, part of the reason why it's smooth and elegant is, is, it is loading. Data in the background. So when you're ready to look at it, it's just there. And they said they worked really hard to make sure it didn't kill the battery. Like if you're on wifi it will download more stuff and if you're on cellular if it notices that your battery is running really low it will download less stuff than if you have a full battery. So I'm always a little bit skeptical, even when somebody tells me that their app doesn't kill the battery, but they do say they devoted a lot of energy to making sure that it's, that it's not a major issue. Yes, so with the battery situation is like two, you gotta -, not battery, sorry, the data situation is like two, because constantly... Right. yeah. That was part of the same issue. They went. To make sure you don't blow through your data plan. So, when you're on WiFi sucks up less battery and is not apart of your data plan. It will download alot more of your stuff than if it notices you're on cellular. Yeah well i'm so torn on this cause half of this seems so simple because once you load it up it's like. You, you're in, there's pictures of your friends' babies, which is all Facebook is, for me right now, at least. And then you have three things you can do. You can go launch your apps, you can go send a message to someone, or you can go to your most recent app, on the home screen. So that's simp, it's such a simple interface. But then, It's like if you don't buy this, this HTC First phone. You have to, have the wherewithal to, go to the, the, the Google Play store. You have to, download and install this launcher. You have to, you get an option when it pops up. Do you wanna run this launcher once, or do you wanna run it full time? What if you're running it and you're like, I don't like this anymore I want to take it off. Then you gotta figure out how to uninstall it. I don't even know if you can. Harry did any one ask, on the HTC first, can you take the facebook home off of there and then run a regular android experience. As far as I know we don't know that for sure yet. OK [ CROSSTALK ] That you could given the way other launchers work. Have it like I mean you know that stuff with lawn chairs is not all that complicated if you're watching this video. You can probably do it but it is a little nerdy and I think for kind of normal people who are not tech ads but simply want a useful phone. That feature up until now in, Android was specifically designed to be all that obvious. And I suspect your average, typical normal Android user may not even be, aware of the concept of a launcher, or that you can swap it out for something different. There are a lot of them out there, but most of the ones that exist so far. Are kind of aimed at nerds, and that this is the first one that really is hoping to attract millions, if not tens of millions, if not hundreds of millions, of people. And that's, that's the problem that Google has, not the problem, but that Google's deal with Android is, a, Android's open. You can load a new launcher on, if you want. But Google wants you, in general, to use. The watcher that comes with Android because it's got the, the google search widget installed at the top. It's got the google browser that launches just cuz google makes money selling ads based on what people are browsing for so now there's some question about has facebook used google's openess against it in this case. Yeah. It will be interesting to see over time whether google Makes doing something that's easier or harder [ UNKNOWN ] who was there really, really pressed Mark Zuckerberg on the notion that maybe all of the sudden there will be a new version of Android at some point. That makes it hard or impossible for something like Facebook Home to exist basically. [ INAUDIBLE ] Google is probably not all that thrilled when all is said and done about the notion it's most scary competitor taking over the interface for an Android phone. Okay, so, yeah. I could almost. You know, I almost, like, not, they could say you can't have launchers. But get rid of all the launchers, I don't really see that happening. Well, what I could see as possibility is to go to a company like HTC and say you know, if you want to keep, if you wanted to keep you know, licensing good little apps, then you can't keep doing these phones. There was a story about them you know, doing that know with Acer had, that got in some sort of trouble. They wanted to do some kind of phone. In Asia somewhere and they were told that they, had to not do that. They were pressured out of it. And so, you know, I think that could possibly happen. Which is dangerous territory cause it starts to sound, an awful lot like what Microsoft used to do back in the nineties when, pc companies wanted to fool around too much with interface rather than somebody else's browser. Microsoft strongly discouraged them from doing that and got in trouble with the Justice Department. And I'm not, guess I'm not shocked because of the way that Windows Phone eight is set up, but Win [ LAUGH ] Windows Phone has the people hub Which is you know, the, the, the first thing you see when you turn on, when you use a Windows eight phone. It's your main screen, it's got all, brings in Facebook and does it bring in your Twitter people too? LinkedIn? Yeah, it can. Yeah. And but like, Microsoft owns a big chunk of Facebook. This is all getting weird. Microsoft owns a chunk of Facebook. Facebook is now in, sort of in cahoots with Google, but sort of you know, in cahoots with the AT & T and HTC. And then they've got his, HTC's got their own Blink Feed that they're trying to push, but they're also doing this Facebook phone. So I guess, you know, as a phone manufacturer you want to get as many, you know, you want to diversity as HTC is doing with this move. But then as Android, there's Google, you have. [ SOUND ] I'm confused. I don't like it. It's too much to keep track of. [ LAUGH ] So what, what do we think about the possibility of this taking off? my, my, I, I'll go for, I think there's gonna be a big uptick on April12th when this is available and then I ( no period ) I'm really. Facebook is really going to have to market the hell out of this. And market it well for people to adopt it and install it on anything but the HTC first. Or hope that a lot of people buy it. But they need this to be adopted in mass quantaties. Harry, what are your thoughts. I think this is sort of a relatively small step in a long journey. And it's you know, possible that a few years from now, whatever Facebook looks like at that point on a phone we'll be able to date back to the launch of Facebook home. But right now when it launches, it's not, it's not a transcended moment for the industry or anything. It's kinda very. A fairly simple product that might be interesting to a certain percentage of Facebook users. Could you see Facebook getting people hooked on Facebook home and then if Google pulls some sort of stunt where they say no, prevent the Facebook launcher, Facebook home from being a launcher? Then could you see Facebook forking android or working on its own mobile operating system at some point? [ UNKNOWN ] was also talking about that even though he spent all of this morning explaining why that's a bad idea. [ UNKNOWN ] other people are wondering whether they might do that. I'm also curious whether they might, capture this entire thing on IOS there are about 27 other things. Which Facebook Home does, which Apple will not let Facebook do. But I, I asked one of the folks from Facebook, whether we might see aspects of Facebook Home on, on Facebook's iOS apps and, and, he actually said yes, you will see some aspects of this because everybody had Facebook in different groups, likes to steal ideas from each other. And so it seems not inconceivable that you'll see some version of chat heads or the cover of flow, the cover feed rather on iOS at some point even though it's not part of this announcement. But it's important to note that in it's current incarnation this would be impossible to do on a standard iPhone without jailbreaking it. You can not swap in a different launcher. I think Apple really doesn't want you having any sort of app strain that launches other apps. And it also uses intergration with text messaging which is possible on Android but not iOS. And the chat heads Appearing on top of any application is not something you can do on iOS, Tom, you'll only be able to do that within Facebook's own app. Yeah, I mean, that, that I think, could we agree as, as geeks, the three of us, that Chat Heads is actually the killer feature if you're a geek? Jarad, are you a geek? I feel that way. I mean, you know, it's a kind of thing where even if you don't use Facebook it could potentially be useful if you're dealing with a lot of text messages. You know, and even if you just use that and only use the rest of home as an app launcher, you may still get value from that. You know, It's other than that, just an app launcher is very similar to what an iPhone is and people find great value in having just an app launcher. So having just an extra layer on top could be useful. Jarad do you have any final thoughts, over- arching wisdom, about how you feel about this? What does your heart say? [ LAUGH ] Interested to see what happens when it, I think, [ LAUGH ], I think it's going to kind of [ INAUDIBLE ] what phone makers do. Actually, the best. And see if they make more Windows phone or Facebook phones. What is arguably the best aspect of this is it's very, it's pretty low risk for Facebook, because it's not like they. They don't need people to buy this particular phone. On, on April 12th, I have one of the compatible phones, I'll download it and see if it works, it's very low, it's, you know, aside from the resources they had to put into, to actually make it, this is not a huge gamble, is it Harry? No, I mean that, they don't have a team of a thousand people working on this presumably, there's probably a pretty small team. Because it's not a fork of Android or a full blown operating system, there's a lot of stuff they don't need to worry about. But they do have the opportunity to build this and make it richer over time and at some point, even if it's not technically an operating system it might start to feel like. A full blown environment, in a way, it's not today. So, I have to think it is pretty smart. Well, well, I'm not positive it's gonna take off, but it seems like it's an intelligent thing to try. And a reasonable way to go about doing it. Maybe we can see some sorta like, Google Chrome came out, the, the Chrome web browser. People started using that and really liked it. I used Chrome for everything. And then all of a sudden, Google puts out Chrome Books and you're like, I can Get it. I can get along with that idea cause I really only need Chrome. So, the, you know, do you think, do you think something like that can happen Jared? Yeah I mean if, if they, if they can build out a lot of the other services that are around it you know and make, it seems like. Mark Zuckerburg always talks about, you know, social being sorta the focus of everything. And that everything that you do is just gonna be, you know, whether your friends are doing it and you see that other people are, are recommending things and, you know. It's all gonna depend on that being like, the services that you rely on being, hooked into Facebook. Then it may become something you might want for. Okay so wrapping it up April 12th, on the HTC first which is available for $ 100 bucks from AT and T, plus a two year contract also going to be available on the newer HTC devices the one, the 1X, the 1X plus and the Samsung Galaxy S3. Samsung Galaxy S4 and a Samsung Galaxy Note 2. And then presumably more Android devices as time rolls on. And eventually Android tablets. 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