--- title: James Hansen: Cap & Trade Won't Work | TIME description: NASA climate scientist James Hansen tells TIME the Obama Administration is on the wrong track to curb climate change canonical: https://time.com/video/K84kGHXp/ og:title: James Hansen: Cap & Trade Won't Work og:description: NASA climate scientist James Hansen tells TIME the Obama Administration is on the wrong track to curb climate change og:url: https://time.com/video/K84kGHXp/ og:image: https://cdn.jwplayer.com/v2/media/K84kGHXp/poster.jpg?width=720 og:type: video.other twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: James Hansen: Cap & Trade Won't Work twitter:description: NASA climate scientist James Hansen tells TIME the Obama Administration is on the wrong track to curb climate change twitter:image: https://cdn.jwplayer.com/v2/media/K84kGHXp/poster.jpg?width=720 --- # James Hansen: Cap & Trade Won't Work > Sponsored content. Supplied in partnership with TIME. 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They are at time.com/newsletters and are separate from a paid subscription. ## Video: James Hansen: Cap & Trade Won't Work [Watch (HLS stream): James Hansen: Cap & Trade Won't Work](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/K84kGHXp.m3u8) (5:52)  _Published 2009-12-11. NASA climate scientist James Hansen tells TIME the Obama Administration is on the wrong track to curb climate change_ --- Jul 27, 2023 1:17 PM UTC --- ## More From This Series [All Videos](https://time.com/video/) [The Legal Reasons Why President Trump Won't Take A Stand On Climate Change](/video/mia6Tcb8/) ### The Legal Reasons Why President Trump Won't Take A Stand On Climate Change [LeBron James Opts Out, But Likely Won't Be Leaving Cleveland](/video/qphURcqK/) ### LeBron James Opts Out, But Likely Won't Be Leaving Cleveland [Australian Cricket Administrator James Sutherland](/video/bRNfSbI9/) ### Australian Cricket Administrator James Sutherland --- ## Transcript >> I'm here with Dr. James Hansen, prominent American climatologist and author of the new book, Storms of My Grandchildren. Thank you for coming here Dr. Hansen. >> Sure, glad to be here. >> Just to start off with, of course, the hacked climate emails have been very much in the news these days. Do they do anything to change the scientific consensus of the scientific case on man- made climate change? >> No. It's a miss though from public relation standpoint, but the science has not changed one iota. In fact, well, the problem was- or one of the problems was that East Anglia- at least initially, didn't want to release the basic data that they used for their analysis which is a mistake not to release the data because the way science works, you have to release your basic data. But, that data is available from our website and other public places. And if you could use that data to produce any different result than what we show or what East Anglia shows, then the deniers, the contrarians would certainly do that in a heartbeat, but they can't because the data is the data. And we can see the climate change which is occurring, you know, all around the world- melting ice, shifting climate zones. >> You yourself are not attending Copenhagen and that of course is supposedly going to be the summit where the world will take action on this-- where eventually actions will begin to match the words so far. But, you don't- do you have any hopes really for anything that could be coming possibly out of this- out of this meeting? >> Well, not if it is the kind of agreements that they're talking about. They're talking about Cap and Trade with offsets. And, you- we can see that's how the Kyoto Protocol worked. Developed countries want to have these clauses which allow them- instead of reducing their emissions substantially, they will be able to purchase offsets. For example by preserving a forest someplace, but in fact the demand for lumber is not going to be decreased or the demand for area to grow food, so if you preserve a forest one place, the tree is cut down some other place. So, most of these offsets are imaginary or ineffective. >> And so your alternative course of action is actually you proposed a carbon tax. Why is that in your opinion superior to this Cap and Trade idea that, you know, not only do [ unk ] at the UN level, but also in Washington and also most mainstream environmental groups will say or in support of it as well. Why is the attacks the superior way to go about doing this? >> What I'm proposing with fee and dividend would be a fee that is applied at the mind or the port of entry. So it's across the board on coal, oil and gas at a flat rate which would gradually rise overtime. But, all the money that is collected would be given to the public so that they would have the resources to invest in more energy efficient vehicles or insulating their home so that they could reduce the impact of this rising carbon price on their energy costs. >> Would you rather see a failure or a collapse at Copenhagen rather than the approval of a system that is a capital-- ultimately a Cap and Trade system? >> I would because if you go down the wrong track, you're going to have a 10- year [ unk ] where you actually don't make any progress. >> And what's the Obama Administration's take on what you've been doing? I mean, you obviously know very well some scientists who've gone on to become part of the administration, but your view especially when it comes to policy, you differ. They seem to support Cap and Trade. Are they frail to be free about letting you have your side? >> So far, they've been very free about letting me say what I want to. And I, you know, scientifically, I'm in very close agreement with the science advisor and the Secretary of Energy. >> What's your take on President Obama's performance on climate change so far? >> I'm not sure that he yet understands the severity of the actions that are needed in order to stabilize the climate. And, I think he's probably been misinformed about the effectiveness of Cap and Trade. >> The picture you paint in your book of what could happen to this world in the absence of strong action is really quite frightening. Are you optimistic that we'll be able to turn this around? >> Yeah. If we get going in the next several years, there's still time to do something. So- and it does make a difference, you know, we are going to get some impacts. We're already at a point where things are starting to happen, but it makes a big difference whether we end up with a sea level rise of 1 meter or 20 meters. It's inconvenient if we get 1 meter and maybe a little more than inconvenient, but if you get 20 meters, it's a disaster. They're thousands of cities around coastlines which would be destroyed by that. So we have to make the story clear as soon as we can to minimize that kind of effect. >> And if we can make the story clear if those threats become as clear as you understand and you feel that we will be able to respond, that we won't- >> Sure. We should because the actions that need to be taken are actually not that difficult for the public. They're difficult only for the economic interests that feel they're gonna make less money. >> Dr. Hansen thank you very much for coming here. >> Well, it's my pleasure. 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