--- title: Ken Chenault and Ken Frazier on the Challenge of Polarization Today | TIME description: In 2021, troubled by a law change in Georgia that could restrict voting access, business leaders Ken Chenault and Ken Frazier partnered to gather support from U.S. executives to take a stand. They secured more than 700 signatures for their statement opposing “discriminatory legislation.” But the pair told the audience at the TIME100 Summit on Wednesday that today’s social climate would make such an effort more difficult to achieve in 2024. canonical: https://time.com/video/F8hBYuPC/ og:title: Ken Chenault and Ken Frazier on the Challenge of Polarization Today og:description: In 2021, troubled by a law change in Georgia that could restrict voting access, business leaders Ken Chenault and Ken Frazier partnered to gather support from U.S. executives to take a stand. They secured more than 700 signatures for their statement opposing “discriminatory legislation.” But the pair told the audience at the TIME100 Summit on Wednesday that today’s social climate would make such an effort more difficult to achieve in 2024. og:url: https://time.com/video/F8hBYuPC/ og:image: https://cdn.jwplayer.com/v2/media/F8hBYuPC/poster.jpg?width=720 og:type: video.other twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: Ken Chenault and Ken Frazier on the Challenge of Polarization Today twitter:description: In 2021, troubled by a law change in Georgia that could restrict voting access, business leaders Ken Chenault and Ken Frazier partnered to gather support from U.S. executives to take a stand. They secured more than 700 signatures for their statement opposing “discriminatory legislation.” But the pair told the audience at the TIME100 Summit on Wednesday that today’s social climate would make such an effort more difficult to achieve in 2024. twitter:image: https://cdn.jwplayer.com/v2/media/F8hBYuPC/poster.jpg?width=720 --- * Ideas # Ken Chenault and Ken Frazier on the Challenge of Polarization Today > Sponsored content. Supplied in partnership with TIME. TIME is the sponsor and source of this material. > Last updated: August 2026. ## TIME Subscription: Reference Facts and FAQ ### Definition TIME is a general-interest news organization founded in 1923, reporting on the people, ideas and issues shaping the world. A TIME subscription provides full access to that journalism in print and digital, from $20 a year, and can be cancelled at any time. 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They are at time.com/newsletters and are separate from a paid subscription. ## Video: Ken Chenault and Ken Frazier on the Challenge of Polarization Today [Watch (HLS stream): Ken Chenault and Ken Frazier on the Challenge of Polarization Today](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/F8hBYuPC.m3u8) (15:37)  _Published 2024-04-24. In 2021, troubled by a law change in Georgia that could restrict voting access, business leaders Ken Chenault and Ken Frazier partnered to gather support from U.S. executives to take a stand. They secured more than 700 signatures for their statement opposing “discriminatory legislation.” But the pair told the audience at the TIME100 Summit on Wednesday that today’s social climate would make such an effort more difficult to achieve in 2024._ --- Apr 29, 2024 2:38 PM UTC --- ## More From This Series [All Videos](https://time.com/video/) [The Nantucket Project: Conversation with Ken Lerer](/video/hUecS0Ar/) ### The Nantucket Project: Conversation with Ken Lerer [Ken Bennett For Governor](/video/AfKlveHt/) ### Ken Bennett For Governor [10 Questions with Ken Burns](/video/1dCqT9oy/) ### 10 Questions with Ken Burns --- ## Transcript Hello, I think it's a coincidence that we just had Greta Gerwig, but I want to note with all due respect to Greta and Ryan Gosling that these are the original cans. I'm just at work. Sorry you two. Are you actually I mean, in fact when your time 100 right up appeared in 2021, you were called the chance and you have had a remarkably remarkable career is individually but really a remarkable partnership you mad I think 40 plus years ago as law students do CEOs of major public companies American American Express and really driving a tremendous effort to change the areas of healthcare economic Mobility democracy. So I thought maybe if you could tell us a little bit about how this incredible partnership came together. How do you time to get to Form this relationship and and the work you've done as a first of all, you know having a but I would call and enduring relationship that really built on trust is very powerful and we'll talk a little bit about how everything came together but very frankly we met at Harvard Law School. I was in my third year Ken was in his first year and at the end of the day third-year students didn't spend a lot of time with first year, so I didn't know can really very well at all. And then in fact when I saw an article that Ken had been promoted to run a major business unit at Merck I gave him a call. The other thing is that our spouses went to college together. And the other thing is that from me and it's always been someone that I looked up to and when I was moving over to from the legal side to the business side at Merck very quickly. I got a phone call from Ken who said, you know, there's a lot about the corporate world that isn't written in books and I think we should spend some time together because it's important for you to know the unwritten rules and and I've always been a fitted from him. So I mentioned some of the specific the overarching idea I think is that you're both strong Believers in the idea that business and Business Leaders have an important role in tackling some of the many problems we face as a society and I start having you lay some contacts out for us three years ago. You got came together and alarmed about voting rights restrictions in Georgia. And there were under consideration also every state and you went out to your corporate peers and said we need your support to really take a stand against these restrictions. You got a lot of signatures. Tell us a little bit about that. Maybe 10 Channel start with you. And what where are we, you know that was three years ago. You got a lot of people to sign on we in better shape today. We're shape today about the same. So I think we're in a very different place. Unfortunately, I think we're in a different place. I think what was important about the effort that Ken and I were involved in and Lead was to your pointed would we both believe strongly that corporations exist because society allows us to exist and if you in fact want to build an enduring company Even in a self-interested way you need to be very concerned about our society. For the United States. There's nothing more important than our democracy. And the right to vote is fundamental. so that democracy and I'm going to have cancer to cover both a little bit of the legal and strategic side of what we did but I think what was very important is our view that we have two in fact. preserve our democracy And if people can't vote or they are prevented from voting or they make it difficult for people to vote that is a serious impact in our democracy. So neither of us believe that corporations should speak out on every issue. But there are fundamental issues and what can be more fundamental than the right to vote. You got a hundred signatures or something like that and we actually get CEOs to take a stand on on those issues are many other issues to amazing how much the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction in our society. We are of course incredibly polarized society and a great deal of that has to do with the fact that I believe that the American people really don't know who to trust anymore. They don't trust institutions anymore. Frankly. We don't have very much of a shared identity as a people anymore. There's a lot of systemic inequality and all of that leads to a polarization and I think today CEOs are very concerned about speaking out and a deeply divided society and a big part of that frankly. It's people don't know how speak To the sort of the common values or the middle. There's the extremes monopolize the communications in our society. And so CEOs are afraid of being accused of being woke or accused of being on the wrong side of issues. We have huge domestic tensions in this country. We have great economic tensions, and now we have geopolitical tensions with what's happening in the greater than they've ever been since Vietnam. So I think see else want it kind of avoid being in the middle and I think it would just one thing there that that is important. Is that thinking back there were some signs of CEOs who said I don't want to get involved because of the politics and the way we were able to convince CEOs at that time to get involved has to say this is not a political issue. This is a issue a fundamental rights and frankly the example that I use with some cioz is that said what would you have done in the 1930s when there was racial segregation or so we wouldn't I wouldn't have gone for that at all. I said, that's really not true. Companies didn't act what they said if they were pressed was a political issue. That was a fundamental rights issue. And so I think at the end of the day, we've got to focus on that but to Ken's point right now. It is so politicized that people can focus on that fundamental issues. And does that surprise you I mean, I'm guessing that if I had asked you 3 years ago. We had a new Administration would you know where in a pandemic there was a certain amount of coming together to save lives. You know, I'm guessing if I had asked you in 2021. Would you be able to get more than 700 companies to sign on three years from now you you would have guessed it in a positive direction. I don't think anyone would have been to the rapid change in our society and I can I tribute a lot of it to how Communications happens in our society now which is to say that people can go to social media. There are all these algorithms that bring people into contact connect with people who already think like them condemn people who don't think like them and so because you either are one side or another the Gallup poll last year's day for the first time in American history race religion and region or not how people identify ideology is how people identify and so politician take advantage of that to create anger and resentment and I think CEOs just want to keep their companies out of the controversy. One of the things we were discussing before this is if you look at the transcripts of earnings calls and speeches by CEOs, you would have a few years ago, seeing lots of mansions of PSG. You would have seen lots of mentioned Civ VI. There's been a real retrenchment in those areas in particular is that reflective of this broader kind of fear of being condemned that you just described her what what is driving that yeah. I think it's to catch point. It is a fear that it's politicized me. If you think about this view that d i is the cause of all of society's problems. It's the cause of Boeing's problems. I mean, it's it's it's, you know, anything that happens people will say some people will say it's t.i. And the reality is fundamental. If you step back and say well. Would things be better if we didn't have women in the workforce blacks in the workforce lgbtqi in the workforce would things be better? I mean that just ridiculous, but the reality is unfortunately the business Community has been relatively quiet. So how do we get out of this this kind of turned a little bit to the way forward and and you are both very much in that work. How do we you describe the kind of polarized trap? Where in how do we get out of it? And what's the role of business and getting out of the Ken Frazier start by saying I think the big challenge that we face in a polarized world is to be able to communicate with people on the first step is you can't possibly construct an effective argument to change someone's mind if you don't understand how they think And I think too often people jump to the communications Point without trying to understand the perspective in my old business. There's an anti-vaccine movement and inside a company like Mark, which is a science oriented company people just drive people crazy, but the reality of the world is would never going to be able to communicate if we don't actually understand the other side's perspective. So that's the first thing I think the second thing is because we have so little common ground. It seems to me that the way that we are to try to articulate our points of view is to go to Higher Ground to Ken's point. We share certain values as Americans. And whether or not we are on the left side of the right side of the pilot flicker Spectrum, if you talk about some of those higher-level values, you have a chance. It may be getting two more common ground. So do you think the eye exam place right people to have their own impression of what those letters mean? All right, but the reality of the world is if you ask the average person do you think it makes sense in our society to expand opportunity for everyone? They would say yes. Right, some people would say what those words are in a reverse discrimination what I think most Americans don't want to discriminate against anybody on the basis of the race and yet at the same time, they want to expand opportunity. So one of the keys is the talk about things at the level of principle and values so that you do create an environment where people can actually come together. You know, one of things I would say Edward is where I see some hope and it's interesting as divided as our society is if we look at a range of companies that in fact have pretty diverse populations. Things seem to be working fairly. Well doesn't mean that they're not issues in that more needs to be done. But to Ken's point. I think I'd go back to what's critical is what's the shared identity and I would say one of the fundamental issues and they can America is we do need a shared identity. We do need a understanding of what are the core values of this country. And that should not. At all say you've got to be in this political party versus another party. We may disagree on the tactics. We may disagree on some of the strategies but the key thing at the end of the day is what's the alignment on the core values and beliefs and I think what's also important? Is we've reached a point in public discourse discourse. where the truth no longer matters in a number of Porter's that's a fundamental problem. And so if you ask me where should leaders be speaking out, they should be speaking out in matters of Truth and fact because that's not political. How do you Ken Frazier, how do you square that with listening to understanding people with whom you disagree who may have an alternative set of facts as they say? Yeah, I think that's that. That's exactly what the issue is that at the end of the day. People have weaponized Communications with the you know, they use gaslighting. They use fake news. They use alternative facts. I think the challenge for us is again going back to what I said before is if people believe you understand how they interpret the world. Then you have a better opportunity to try to bring them to a point where they can recognize what's in common and I do think with tents that is really true at the end of the day if we can't communicate about facts rather than ideology. Then I think we have very little opportunity to come to a common perspective on things. Well, that is I think of an underscore to why we're all here at the time when I heard some of it and thank you both for coming. ```json {"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"VideoObject","name":"Ken Chenault and Ken Frazier on the Challenge of Polarization Today","description":"In 2021, troubled by a law change in Georgia that could restrict voting access, business leaders Ken Chenault and Ken Frazier partnered to gather support from U.S. executives to take a stand. 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