--- title: All Hands on Deck for Higher Education | TIME description: At the TIME Summit on Higher Education, journalist Bill Moyers moderates a discussion on the future of America's universities canonical: https://time.com/video/EOYG5qkm/ og:title: All Hands on Deck for Higher Education og:description: At the TIME Summit on Higher Education, journalist Bill Moyers moderates a discussion on the future of America's universities og:url: https://time.com/video/EOYG5qkm/ og:image: https://cdn.jwplayer.com/v2/media/EOYG5qkm/poster.jpg?width=720 og:type: video.other twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: All Hands on Deck for Higher Education twitter:description: At the TIME Summit on Higher Education, journalist Bill Moyers moderates a discussion on the future of America's universities twitter:image: https://cdn.jwplayer.com/v2/media/EOYG5qkm/poster.jpg?width=720 --- # All Hands on Deck for Higher Education > Sponsored content. Supplied in partnership with TIME. 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They are at time.com/newsletters and are separate from a paid subscription. ## Video: All Hands on Deck for Higher Education [Watch (HLS stream): All Hands on Deck for Higher Education](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/EOYG5qkm.m3u8) (8:55)  _Published 2012-10-21. At the TIME Summit on Higher Education, journalist Bill Moyers moderates a discussion on the future of America's universities_ --- Jul 27, 2023 3:28 PM UTC --- ## More From This Series [All Videos](https://time.com/video/) [The University of California Strike Could Reshape Higher Education](/video/1tnuTiJA/) ### The University of California Strike Could Reshape Higher Education [Shaping The Future of Higher Education in America](/video/RfYE3pzE/) ### Shaping The Future of Higher Education in America [The Challenges of Basic Research in Higher Education](/video/jhrUlLZX/) ### The Challenges of Basic Research in Higher Education --- ## Transcript [ SOUND ] [ LAUGH ] We're calling this panel All Hands on Deck, perspectives from Higher Education, Government, Philanthropy and Business. Our assigned task is to explore how the challenges of higher education, what you've heard dissected all day might be translated Into a new national conversation that engages and excites the public at this divided time in our country. And lead to a new resolve that what happens in higher education is essential to nourishing a good life and a great society. We have four people plus the secretary whose life experiences have equipped them to see the challenges of higher education from different perspectives. I was thinking about the paper done for this conference, I thought it was the most interesting paper to me by Mark Yudof. And he calls in that paper, and I highly recommend it to you if you haven't seen it, for an integrated national strategy. Is Yudof right in thinking that we can get a national strategy that integrates this into a holistic view that we can explain to and enlist the support of the American people in implementing? A couple things. First of all, I think if there's anything that folks on a bipartisan basis can and should come together behind is education. So I think two things have to compel change. One is what I call through a disruptive innovation. Folks coming from the outside, [ UNKNOWN ] coursera and other folks, these mooks, these large massive online classes that are, that are delivering world- class content basically at no cost. Some very interesting, you know, work going on there. And secondly, again, I think, you know, where learning from [ UNKNOWN ] on the k to 12 side, which I think did have transformational change. Putting in place an incentive structure. I'm a much bigger believer in carriage rather than sticks, but creating an incentive structure that rewards different behavior. I think at the federal level and the state level and local level, we have to do that so significant challenge from the outside, significant change incentives from the inside. I think this is the only way this is gonna happen. I slightly divert from my friend Annie. Her education is a vertical enterprise as we know it. You know, the colleges or the research universities we went to provided college knowledge discovery, knowledge transmission, assessment and credentialing. But let's talk about the non- learners transmission. We have Full Sail University, Kaplan, for- profits, not for profits. You know second we have also outfits saying, you know, go take those courses were going to asses the value of those courses. And were going to asses whether you are learning those courses right. And finaly we even have colleges like Colorado State College saying go take your courses what ever you want we will asses them and give you the cre, the credintialing. So the, the disruption with moving from a vertically integrated enterprise to a horizontally integrate integrated enterprise like the car industry. You know, you buy your brakes here, you buy your lights here, etcetera. So from this perspective, there are enormous changes. But what are the implications of those changes? Secretary Duncan said we need to also not only focus on input measures but also output measures, and he's right. And, you know, if you can take your courses where ever you want, then every institution would have every incentive and the necessity, to articulate the value and the differentiation of why you should go to Texas. Instead of going to Harvard or Princeton, or where, wherever you want. Eli. You know, I start out with the belief that we've got a broken system in K through 12. In higher education we've got a system that's not economically sustainable. Let me go through some odds, thoughts. Teacher training is a big problem. One, we produce more teachers than we really need, but we don't produce enough math and science teachers. Two, unlike other countries, we get the bottom of our barrel of our students going to Ed schools. In other countries, they get the top third. If it was up to me I'd think about closing all of the Ed schools in America, and have everyone start as a math major, English major, science major and then after two or three years, then get into pedagogy. So the answer is, we can't keep doing what we've been doing. It's time for change. It's time for dramatic change. Not only K through 12 but also in higher Ed. Let me jump in. So one statistic here that I wanna add. In 1973 only 28 % of jobs required post secondary education. 2008 that number was 59 %. By 2018 63 %. So there's a phenomenal gap between what we're producing and what we need. That's going to become even more pronounced because to add a slightly different angle to this, as we all get older, we're gonna depend more and more on younger people with better education to produce all the goods and services that we need. So I think we start, we start with that degree of of a burning platform, if you will. Mr. Secretary, you said our current model of student in institution Ed is unsustainable. Let me just add one. Obviously this is all hard issues. One thing we haven't talked about is the state disinvestments. So, 40 states, the public and democrat cut funding to higher education. And when they do that, tuitions go up. And Universities have to become more efficient and effective. Nobody gets a pass on this. But when I meet with the national governors association I challenge them very very hard that to not invest is not the right thing to do. And I always ask the question, before you cut funding to higher education, tough economic times that's a given, how many of you cut funding for corrections, for locking people up. And the room always gets real quiet. I want to say that budgets reflect our values, they reflect our priorities. And somehow collectively at every level, and hold us accountable. We've tried to walk the walk in tough economic times, the President has increased our budget each year but that is not the norm. So again, challenging everyone, President federal level, governors, local leaders, are you talking the talk or are you walking the walk? Any of you wanna have a question, please please raise your hand. Yes, sir. My name is Michael Crow, I'm president of Arizona State University in Phoenix, and we've been working the last ten years to do a lot of the things you guys are talking about. We dismantled our historic college of education, we had a teachers' college. We tore it down to its roots, and we raised 100 million dollars from three families to help us to be able to do that. Exited 45 faculty members that were basically complainers. We also added 25, 000 students to the institution in an eight year time frame without dramatically increasing the faculty by infusing technology. And I won't go through the whole list of all the other things that we did. The elimination of 69 academic units, the reorganization of those units, the restructuring of, of everything. And with every move we took, we were undermined in various ways by our sister institution. By the constant refrain that you cannot be good and big, you cannot infuse technology and be successful. Your college of education if it departs from the traditional methodology will somehow be discarded by the academic community overall. And so. The point or the comment or the question is that there are institutions attempting to go down the path of some of the things that you guys are talking about but we go alone. I'm just telling you that. We, we go alone in the following sense because as we, as we walk out on that path, what we constantly hear, including today. Is we hear this refrain that you cannot do what you are doing and maintain quality. You can't do it. You can't do it. And that, of course, is our only objective, so that, it's a kind of strange cultural phenomenon. I can't even explain it all. Joseph wants to respond to that, Mike. Joseph. Actually, you know, you are in a great position. And you're in, in an enviable position because you are bucking the trend. You're creating your own metrics. And in fact the whole industry as I, as I mentioned the whole enterprise is changing. And therefore you are positioning yourself as an innovator. If everybody follows. Exactly your template you're normally going be Michael Pro. [ LAUGH ]. You're not gonna be an innovator otherwise. So I've applaud you. This is I, you know that I admire what you have been doing but it's great that you're bucking the trend. The beauty of high education in the United State is that we're diverse. We collaborate, we compete. You'll, you are able to do it, even despite the fact that some naysayers said no, you were able to do it, fine. Thank you, all five of you for being here today, and thank you. Let me. [ SOUND ] Thank you, good to see you. 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