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Time charter

* [culture](/partner-content/charter/tag/culture/)  
## culture  


# Beyonce's Former Strategist on Turning Employees Into Fans

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by 

[Jena McGregor](https://time.com/author/jena-mcgregor/)

Managing Editor, Charter

Sep 20, 2026 10:30 AM UTC

![](https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blta676db8be4341865/6aadcf34effc54e779dfc8de/charter-collins-0920.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=3:2)

Art: Charter

by 

[Jena McGregor](https://time.com/author/jena-mcgregor/)

Managing Editor, Charter

Sep 20, 2026 10:30 AM UTC

Marcus Collins has an unconventional business school professor’s background: He ran digital strategy for Beyoncé, worked on iTunes and Nike partnerships at Apple, and rose to chief strategy officer at the ad agency Widen+Kennedy. That path from music and tech to Madison Avenue and academia informs his views on organizational culture, which he says is based on shared beliefs. 

Collins’s [first book](https://bookshop.org/a/664/9781541700970) looked at how culture drives consumer behavior; his next book, [_Good Soil_](https://bookshop.org/a/664/9781541706156), due out in February, looks inward at the “backstage” conditions that determine whether a company’s culture can take root and grow. Charter spoke with Collins about his definition of culture and what sports and music can teach leaders about belonging. Here are excerpts from that conversation, edited for length and clarity: 


**How do you define organizational culture? What do most people get wrong about it?**

The definition we use most comes from two [scholars in the 1980s](https://searchworks.stanford.edu/view/9999791), \[Terrence\] Deal and \[Allan\] Kennedy. They define organizational culture as ‘how we do things around here.’ That's the one everybody goes to.

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**And you don't agree with that?**

I do not. If you go back into the literature, that's only half the battle. [Elliott Jaques](https://www.amazon.com/dp/1013372158?lv=shuf&channelId=500&plpRedirect=mhFallback), who coined the phrase ‘workplace culture,’ defined it as a tradition of thinking and doing—the cognitions and the kinetics. Fast forward 30 years and you get [Edgar Schein](https://mitsloan.mit.edu/ideas-made-to-matter/5-enduring-management-ideas-mit-sloans-edgar-schein), who talked about the shared assumptions and beliefs of an organization that allow it to deal with external and internal complications.

\[Too often\], when we talk about organizational culture we talk about what we do. We say, ‘We work hard, play hard, we have office hours, there's a foosball table in the kitchen, we have pizza Fridays’—the ceremonies, the rituals, the traditions. But what actually grounds organizational culture are the beliefs reflected in those rituals and behaviors.


The way I talk about organizational culture is the way those early scholars did, and the way scholars of sociology like [Durkheim, Weber, and Marx](https://compass.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/soc4.12627) talked about culture as a broader idea—as an operating system. That operating system is predicated on shared cognitions, shared kinetics, and shared creations \[that\] allow us to move from working alongside each other to working with each other. Shared cognitions are the beliefs we hold. The kinetics are the behaviors—the evidence of those shared beliefs. And the creations are the outputs: what we create, be it products, services, or everything in between.

This isn't just for corporations. It's for nonprofits, sports teams, musical acts—any people who come together in the collective production of work. The alchemy of all three makes up an organization's culture, or what I call the cultural soil of the organization's environment.

**There's been a real pendulum swing in how we talk about things like inclusion and belonging over the last few years. Are there lessons about belonging that carry over from the music or ad industry?**


One thousand percent. The music industry is a really good example, and sports is a perfect example. You can buy players, but you can't buy a team. You can put the best \[musicians\] together, but that doesn't mean they'll play well if the operating system among them isn't at optimum fidelity.

What we know about culture writ large is that belonging is predicated on shared beliefs. For some people, a cow is leather; for others, a deity; for others, dinner. It's all the same animal. But if you say, ‘For me, a cow is a deity,’ and I say, ‘Me too!’—we're connected. In that moment I trust you more, and because I trust you more, I'm willing to engage more deeply with you. That's how we move from what \[Michael\] [Tomasello](https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262013598/why-we-cooperate/) called working alongside each other to working with each other.

When organizations have very clear beliefs and convictions, people say, ‘I don't want to just work for that company—I want to work with that company, because I believe in what they aspire to do.’ Once you get there, you move from a transactional relationship, where I give you my talent and time for wages, to one where I'm giving you all of me because I want to see our shared imagination of the world come to fruition. 


**You worked in music, and brought up sports—fandom feels like a real example of culture. What can being a fan teach us about loyalty inside an organization?**

The organizations with the most salient cultures—we call them cults. Why? Because their culture is material, and for the people who work there, it's part of their identity. They don't just wear the swag. They say, ‘I'm an Apple guy. I'm a Google guy. I'm a Tesla guy.’ When people feel that committed, they're constantly proselytizing about \[the company\]. Fandom, after all, comes from the etymology of ‘fanatic.’

That commitment doesn't happen because they like it. It happens because they see themselves in it—they see their worldview reflected in the world this organization has curated.

---

## Read more from Charter

[READ MORE](https://time.com/partner-content/charter/)

[Open article: How to Build Strong Workplace Cultures in the Trump Era](https://time.com/partner-content/charter/7262490/how-to-build-strong-workplace-cultures-in-the-trump-era/)

![](https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/bltcdfb089f977ca7cb/6998c47993610c5092c2f681/charter-Woodfin.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=3:2)

### How to Build Strong Workplace Cultures in the Trump Era

[READ MORE](https://time.com/partner-content/charter/7262490/how-to-build-strong-workplace-cultures-in-the-trump-era/)

[Open article: Why EY Treats Loneliness as an Inclusion Issue](https://time.com/partner-content/charter/7211202/why-ey-treats-loneliness-as-a-dei-issue/)

![](https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt8a6c6e75871b122f/6998b2d4e2d64b536ec5d24d/charter-loneliness-1.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=3:2)

### Why EY Treats Loneliness as an Inclusion Issue

[READ MORE](https://time.com/partner-content/charter/7211202/why-ey-treats-loneliness-as-a-dei-issue/)

[Open article: A badly needed new framework for “bring your whole self” to work](https://time.com/partner-content/charter/6971735/julianna-pillemer-authenticity/)

![](https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/bltfc4fe3d399c85b4a/698a5617e6e84ad2862b2de5/charter-pillemer.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=3:2)

### A badly needed new framework for “bring your whole self” to work

[READ MORE](https://time.com/partner-content/charter/6971735/julianna-pillemer-authenticity/)

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