‘I Have Become the Target’

For a man accused of capitalizing on his wife’s position, Taufik Kiemas appears unruffled. The country’s first First Husband was relaxed, almost jovial, when he met Time’s Jason Tedjasukmana in the presidential manor to address his outsized role in Indonesia’s political and business life.

TIME: Many people say you wield considerable influence. Is that true?
Taufik: Whenever there is a project involving a lot of money, people say Pak Taufik is involved. I don’t feel I have any enemies. But there are people that have interests, and I knew I would become the target. The President is quiet; I’m the one who likes to get around. Whenever I travel and visit the regions, people talk and think I’m up to something. It’s unfortunate and tiring but that’s the risk I have to face.

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TIME: Many members of the Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle (PDIP) assert that you are its de facto chairman.
Taufik: They’re wrong. Who-ever thinks that does not really understand the party. After July 27, 1996, our house in (south Jakarta) became the headquarters of PDIP for two years. A lot of what the party is about was born then. Saying I’m de facto chairman is going too far. I’m a senior member.

TIME: A lot of key positions in state banks, pension funds and securities firms are occupied by people from Palembang, your hometown. Are you creating a Palembang Mafia?
Taufik: Many have had positions since the time of Gus Dur. It’s just a coincidence but, yes, our sense of brotherhood is very strong. Bush is like that too with people from Texas, right? Do people call it the Texas Mafia?

TIME: Are they using your name to get jobs or projects?
Taufik: I have told all the ministries that if anyone comes to them using my name, it is not on my behalf or request.

TIME: But lots of people must come to you for favors.
Taufik: I try to avoid that. They still come but I tell them to leave. People say I defend this person or that company, but I don’t get involved.

TIME: What about big businessmenand debtorslike Marimutu Sinivasan and Syamsul Nursalim, who has fled the country. Are they friends of yours? You know Nursalim’s nephew, Jacob, well.
Taufik: I don’t know Marimutu, only his secretary. Jacob is an old friend of mine. I know there’s a risk and that people will say things, but I don’t want to go back to the Suharto era of stigmas when they say you can’t hang out with this person or that person. Still, I hope (Jacob’s) not playing dirty.

TIME: Were you involved in the decisionlater overturnedto extend repayment terms for Marimutu and for Nursalim?
Taufik: I never obstructed the legal process, but let me say this: most governments would prefer someone that can provide jobs (rather) than unemployment.

TIME: What about gambling kingpin Tomy Winata? You were with him in the Thousand Islands off the coast of Jakarta in April, right?
Taufik: It’s a nice island that happens to be owned by Tomy Winata. If the President’s family goes there for holiday, it’s natural that he would be there.

TIME: And your brothers? Do you warn them not to abuse their connection to you?
Taufik: I warn them but I can’t restrain them. I try because I’m the one that will have problems.

TIME: Does the President ever try to limit what you do?
Taufik: I am not limited from proposing things, but I cannot make any decisions. She listens to a lot of people, not only me.