--- title: Leonardo DiCaprio Talks Filmmaking With Martin Scorsese description: TIME’s 2025 Entertainer of the Year and his mentor and longtime collaborator Martin Scorsese talked making movies that follow the soul of a character. canonical: https://time.com/7337802/entertainer-of-the-year-leonardo-dicaprio-martin-scorsese-work-together-characters-soul/ author: Charlotte Hu article:opinion: false article:content_tier: free article:published_time: 2025-12-11T07:15:00.000Z article:modified_time: 2026-10-19T08:13:17.821Z article:section: Entertainment og:title: Leonardo DiCaprio Talks Filmmaking With Martin Scorsese og:description: TIME’s 2025 Entertainer of the Year and his mentor and longtime collaborator Martin Scorsese talked making movies that follow the soul of a character. og:url: https://time.com/7337802/entertainer-of-the-year-leonardo-dicaprio-martin-scorsese-work-together-characters-soul/ og:site_name: TIME og:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/bltb234f14b4cd1a797/6998cc3fe2d64bb827c5fec2/DiCaprio-Scorsese.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 og:image:width: 5090 og:image:height: 2863 og:image:alt: 2025 A Year In TIME Event og:type: article twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: Leonardo DiCaprio Talks Filmmaking With Martin Scorsese twitter:description: TIME’s 2025 Entertainer of the Year and his mentor and longtime collaborator Martin Scorsese talked making movies that follow the soul of a character. twitter:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/bltb234f14b4cd1a797/6998cc3fe2d64bb827c5fec2/DiCaprio-Scorsese.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 ---  # Entertainer of the Year Leo DiCaprio Reflects With Martin Scorsese on Making Movies With Soul > Sponsored content. 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Terms and conditions apply. * Savings buckets are a feature of Ally Bank's Savings Account. * No ATM fees from Ally Bank at Allpoint and Moneypass ATMs plus we reimburse for fees charged by other ATM owners nationwide up to $10 per statement cycle. * Early direct deposit offers eligible direct deposits up to two days sooner. * Spending buckets are a feature of Ally Bank's Spending Account. ## Video: Entertainer of the Year Leo DiCaprio Reflects With Martin Scorsese on Making Movies With Soul [Watch (HLS stream): Entertainer of the Year Leo DiCaprio Reflects With Martin Scorsese on Making Movies With Soul](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/bfMGLhBi.m3u8) (26:35)  _Published 2025-12-11. For Academy Award winners and long-time collaborators Leonardo DiCaprio and Martin Scorsese, a dissection of their creative processes over dinner is no strange occasion. Beyond being filmmaking partners, the two are also friends, with DiCaprio telling TIME in an interview that Scorsese’s Wolf of Wall Street was one of the “most free and exciting and spontaneous and hilarious film productions I’ve ever been a part of. I’ve never seen Martin Scorsese that happy on a set in my life.” So it was only natural for Scorsese to join Dicaprio, TIME’s 2025 “Entertainer of the Year,” in conversation onstage at the “A Year in TIME” event in New York City on Dec. 10._  by [Charlotte Hu](https://time.com/author/charlotte-hu/)  ## Charlotte Hu Associate Editor Dec 11, 2025 7:15 AM UTC For Academy Award winners and long-time collaborators Leonardo DiCaprio and Martin Scorsese, a dissection of their creative processes over dinner is no strange occasion. Beyond being filmmaking partners, the two are also friends, with DiCaprio telling TIME in an interview that Scorsese’s Wolf of Wall Street was one of the “most free and exciting and spontaneous and hilarious film productions I’ve ever been a part of. I’ve never seen Martin Scorsese that happy on a set in my life.” So it was only natural for Scorsese to join Dicaprio, TIME’s 2025 “Entertainer of the Year,” in conversation onstage at the “A Year in TIME” event in New York City on Dec. 10.  by [Charlotte Hu](https://time.com/author/charlotte-hu/)  ## Charlotte Hu Associate Editor Dec 11, 2025 7:15 AM UTC For Academy Award winners and long-time collaborators Leonardo DiCaprio and [Martin Scorsese](https://time.com/collection/time100-leadership-series/6311403/martin-scorsese-killers-of-the-flower-moon-interview/), a dissection of their creative processes over dinner is no strange occasion. Beyond being filmmaking partners, the two are also friends, with DiCaprio telling [TIME in an interview](https://www.tiktok.com/@time/video/7581615028525092110?lang=en) that Scorsese’s _Wolf of Wall Street_ was one of the “most free and exciting and spontaneous and hilarious film productions I’ve ever been a part of. I’ve never seen Martin Scorsese that happy on a set in my life.” So it was only natural for Scorsese to join DiCaprio, TIME’s 2025 [Entertainer of the Year](https://time.com/7338653/entertainer-of-the-year-2025-leonardo-dicaprio/), in conversation onstage at the “A Year in TIME” event in New York City on Dec. 10. Leading up to the rollout of TIME’s Person of the Year issue, “A Year in TIME” also featured conversations with 2025 CEO of the Year [Neal Mohan](https://time.com/7338621/ceo-of-the-year-2025-neal-mohan/) and Athlete of the Year [A'ja Wilson](https://time.com/7339270/athlete-of-the-year-2025-aja-wilson/) as well as a performance by the artists behind Breakthrough of the Year [KPop Demon Hunters](https://time.com/7338690/breakthrough-of-the-year-2025-kpop-demon-hunters/). Closing the night, DiCaprio and Scorsese reflected on their work, peeled back the curtains on their partnership, and looked forward to their seventh joint project—following _Killers of the Flower Moon_, _Wolf of Wall Street_, _Shutter Island_, _The Departed_, _The Aviator_, and _Gangs of New York_—the ghost story _What Happens at Night_, which starts filming in February. DiCaprio, who told TIME that he views acting [as a marathon, not a sprint](https://www.instagram.com/reel/DSNM-aiAmMN/), has built out a [storied and enviable filmography](https://time.com/4172752/leonardo-dicaprio-best-roles/), earning seven Oscar nominations and one win. Throughout DiCaprio’s career, he has held a special reverence for Scorsese, even thanking the filmmaker during his 2016 [Best Actor acceptance speech](https://time.com/4239786/oscars-2016-leonardo-dicaprio-acceptance-speech-best-actor/), which honored his performance in the Alejandro González Iñárritu-directed _The Revenant_. DiCaprio told Scorsese that their experiences together have carried into his work with other filmmakers, including most recently Paul Thomas Anderson. Anderson’s 2025 film [_One Battle After Another_](https://time.com/7318569/one-battle-after-another-review-paul-thomas-anderson/), a [loose adaptation](https://time.com/7319399/one-battle-after-another-vineland-thomas-pynchon/) of the 1990 novel _Vineland_ that centered around late 60s radicalism, starred DiCaprio as a [washed-up revolutionary](https://time.com/7323901/one-battle-after-another-eddington-mastermind-white-male-protagonists/). The [film](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/awards/story/2025-11-03/oscars-power-rankings-top-10-best-picture-contenders-updated) and [DiCaprio’s lead performance](https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/awards/story/2025-09-23/2026-oscar-predictions-best-actor) have both become Oscar favorites for next year. Recalling how his relationship with Scorsese started, DiCaprio said, “At 18 years old, he said to me, ‘Hey kid, great job on _Gilbert Grape_,’ on the way out of a party.” Since then, “our process is something that developed over time.” Working together on _Gangs of New York_, which Scorsese described affectionately as “chaotic,” kicked off the duo’s partnership. By the time they worked on _Wolf of Wall Street_, which Scorsese said DiCaprio convinced him to do, the two had trusted each other and felt comfortable enough to have debates about the approach and direction of the film. Just like any other intimate relationship, they’ve learned to understand the other’s perspective. “Marty’s very obsessive as a filmmaker, he thinks about every single detail,” DiCaprio said. “Over the years, I’ve learned the times when there’s a malleability and ways to pivot in the storyline, but I’ve also learned the times where you have a specific shot list.” “There’s going to be specific times that I tell you what I need directly. It’s gotta be this way,” Scorsese explained. “But you gotta be open to letting the soul of the picture come through.” And the soul of the movie is different with every story. For example, although both _The Departed_ and _The Wolf of Wall_ Street explore similar concepts of “moral ground zero,” the character’s journey, their motivation and what they worship, all influence the final form their story takes. “Marty said many times that plot is irrelevant to him. He wants to follow the soul of that certain character, and all the plot mechanics or how things work out are sort of secondary,” DiCaprio said. Turning to Scorsese, he added: “​​to see your trust in me through the years to take on these certain characters and sort of follow that dynamic and go with the soul of the character, has been extraordinary.” _A Year in TIME was presented by Rolex, American Family Insurance, Serum Institute of India, La Croix, and The Macallan._ ## Transcript [00:00] So, so okay, so, [00:03] you know, people always ask us [00:04] about how we work together. [00:06] Um, and if that [00:08] includes sort of a process that you have or, um, [00:12] a way you approach every, [00:15] um, opportunity, I know, [00:17] I know the, I know how we work together. [00:20] I mean, um, but I correct me if I'm wrong, [00:24] but I don't see it as a, [00:26] um, a scientific process that you have. [00:31] Maybe you could talk a little about that, [00:34] about how you approach the whole. [00:37] The whole, I would think, [00:38] um, not just the part, [00:40] but the concept of creating and being a character. [00:44] Well, first off, let me say, you know, [00:48] not to sound too hyperbolic or [00:51] at the risk of sounding too reverent, [00:54] but getting to work with this gentleman [00:57] and collaborate on six films now going into our. [01:00] Going into the seventh. [01:01] Going in our seventh. [01:05] Has truly been one of [01:08] the proudest moments of my professional career. [01:11] But not only that my entire life and, [01:14] um, you know, yeah, our process, I think, [01:18] is something that developed over time and, and our, [01:22] our collaborations together and the formation [01:25] of the characters that I've gotten to play in your films. [01:29] I think Gangs of New York was a very interesting one, [01:32] just to take it very far back, [01:36] you know, as far as our history together. [01:38] You know, I grew up watching movies very young, [01:42] wanting to be an actor. [01:43] My father brought me to see [01:45] Marty's work along with Mr. Deniro's and says, [01:49] if there's anyone you want to [01:51] strive to work with in your career, [01:53] now that you have the capability of doing movies, [01:56] it's with, uh, with this gentleman. [01:59] So I got to see Marty's work very, very early on. [02:02] Marty's always incredibly gracious with [02:05] other talent filmmakers with the Film Foundation. [02:09] But at 18 years old, you said to me, [02:11] hey, kid, great job in Gilbert Grape. [02:14] You're on the way out of a party. [02:16] Okay? [02:17] And and, you know, [02:19] this stuff sticks with you and I, [02:21] we had the opportunity to work together [02:23] on Gangs of New York for the first film. [02:26] And then after that, [02:27] I think it was really The Aviator where I brought. [02:30] Yes. [02:30] The material. [02:31] Yeah. [02:32] You really got into the sort of [02:34] character study of of who Howard Hughes was, [02:37] and we really dissected that man's life. [02:39] Well, what happened there? Was that [02:40] something in Gangs of New York, [02:42] which was, uh, you know, [02:44] somewhat, um, I say it affectionately, [02:47] chaotic situation, um, in many different ways. [02:51] It was a giant production, that sort of thing. [02:53] But somehow with you, um, [02:56] we pulled through And came together [02:58] immediately to do another picture. [03:01] And that was the aviator. [03:02] And by the time we were doing The Aviator, [03:03] what was happening was that [03:05] I was discovering the trust with you, [03:09] and also it was like I had gone through [03:12] 3 or 4 phases of making films of a career. [03:16] I guess the upside and the downside completely. [03:20] And here, I got to say, [03:22] working with you on aviator, [03:23] particularly, um, was a, [03:26] uh, a kind of a rebirth of, [03:30] of the enjoyment of, [03:32] of creating something in cinema. [03:34] And so we just kept working together. [03:37] And I think a lot of it has to do [03:38] with a lot of it has to do [03:40] with the way you think, [03:43] which is you still have [03:44] the curiosity pretty much about everything. [03:47] You're interested in everything, [03:49] and particularly whether it's cinema and [03:51] which you know you're aware of, [03:53] you're aware of films that I knew growing up. [03:56] Um, you'll come in and say, listen to this music, [03:58] and it's Louis Jordan or the Mills Brothers. [04:02] And I say, yes, I grew up with that night, [04:05] but I was born in 1942. [04:06] What the hell is this kid listening to? [04:08] You know, I mean, there's. [04:10] So that can be. Listen to this and listen to that. [04:13] And then next thing you know, [04:14] there's this book and there's this. [04:15] And so what happens is that there's, [04:17] um, an excitement again. [04:20] And I kind of it was pretty much a renaissance for me [04:24] that and slipping into departed and then [04:27] into the crazy Shutter Island situation. [04:30] Um, and, uh, ultimately, [04:33] what Wolf, which you convinced me to do. [04:35] Um. [04:38] You know, but then, Wolf, [04:41] we just by the time we did Wolf, [04:42] we decided, uh, the trust I think was. [04:45] So, um, uh, it wasn't even mentioned in any way. [04:50] In other words, it was so, uh, [04:52] it was so intrinsic of who we are [04:55] together as a as a collaborators, [04:57] as collaborators that we tried everything. [05:00] And some of the most extraordinary things [05:03] came from your enthusiasm. [05:05] Maybe you could talk a little about that. [05:09] That concept of, uh. [05:11] Well, it was interesting, Wolf was very, [05:13] very interesting because we it [05:15] was a complete state of that world, [05:18] was complete debauchery, and it was a state, [05:21] and it opened us up to a certain freedom that [05:24] I don't know if we necessarily have. [05:28] I mean, we had freedom before when working together. [05:31] But there was a those scripts were [05:33] kind of locked in with a specific structure. [05:36] They had twists and turns, [05:38] and this was kind of like [05:39] a Jackson Pollock in a lot of ways. [05:41] It was like the complete freedom to [05:44] try anything, no rules. [05:46] And the script was fantastic, [05:48] but we ended up tearing that thing [05:49] apart and really embracing [05:52] this sort of Caligula like figure and and we. [05:56] I've never seen you more excited in the process [05:59] of a complete freedom to do [06:01] whatever we wanted and put that up on the screen. [06:03] Well, of course we had the book and we had, [06:05] you know, uh, [06:07] character who was real and based on a real guy. [06:09] So, I mean, it gave us, um, [06:11] and also the embracing of [06:13] something which is, uh, you know, [06:15] kind of taboo, which is like, uh, uh, [06:18] sinful behavior can be very, very much fun. [06:25] I've never seen you have. [06:27] Yeah. No no no no no no. [06:29] But I'm saying it's like, oh we can't. [06:31] No, it's the reason it's a problem. [06:33] It becomes a problem because it's really good. [06:35] It has a meaning in the sense that [06:37] you you can let yourself go. [06:38] And then the problem is getting yourself back. [06:41] And the problem is, uh, ultimately, [06:44] uh, some sense of what they call morals. [06:47] And here in Wolf, there are none. [06:51] None. You know, sort of ground zero, [06:56] like in, like in departed to by that point, [06:59] it was ground moral ground zero. [07:01] Everybody's shooting at each other and [07:02] nobody could trust anybody. [07:04] But in Wolf, it's it's about, [07:06] um, it's about the, [07:08] uh, who we worship, [07:11] what we worship, which is, you know. [07:16] The money. It's the money. [07:20] And so we felt that we should go there, I think, [07:23] in terms of really expressing it and [07:24] pushing it to the limit. Um. [07:27] The most one of the most enjoyable things about [07:31] your process and getting to work with you as an actor, [07:34] I think is, you know, [07:37] Marty is the ultimate cinephile. [07:40] So you get these incredible screenings beforehand. [07:43] I remember even in The Aviator watching [07:45] mystery of the mystery of the Wax Museum there. [07:48] Yeah, the original two color one. [07:50] Yeah, yeah. Just to be able to [07:53] accomplish a singular dinner scene [07:56] at at Katharine Hepburn's house. [07:58] The overlapping dialogue. [08:00] But not not not just that. [08:03] I mean, we screened dozens [08:05] and dozens of films before before that movie. [08:08] And pretty much with every film, [08:09] you get a cinema education and [08:12] all that stuff is so highly infused into the, [08:16] the, the performance and the look of the film, [08:19] and it really shapes the tone of all of it. [08:21] So that's been incredible. [08:24] And I, I can't wait [08:25] for this next film that we're going to do [08:26] together and to talk about [08:28] the the movies that you're going to be influenced by. [08:30] Well, and mystery of the Wax Museum was [08:33] a one of the two, uh, [08:35] quote unquote, horror films Warner Brothers [08:38] did in the early 30s, [08:39] pre-Code directed by Michael Curtiz. [08:41] And no horror or thrillers were black and white. [08:45] These were two strip Technicolor. [08:46] I was showing it to you guys for the color, right? [08:49] But you picked up rightly so, [08:51] you and a number of the other actors were there. [08:53] They all picked up the rhythm of the dialogue. [08:55] Glenda Farrell and all these, I think. [08:57] Lee Tracy, I may be wrong, [09:00] but in any event, um, [09:02] that contributed to the nature of how [09:04] the rhythm of the picture really which picked up there. [09:07] For example, though, for departed, [09:09] I showed you ashes and diamonds. [09:11] Ashes and diamonds. Right? Yeah. [09:12] Andre. Beautiful. [09:14] I was struck by that performance. Yeah. [09:17] Yeah. And also, I felt that that, uh cebulski. [09:21] The great actor in that is [09:23] a character who's caught in a war. [09:25] And for the first time, he finds love. [09:28] And at the same time as he finds love, [09:31] he's killed in that sense [09:34] that he's caught in [09:36] in the case of departed, he's caught in this, [09:38] uh, shooting war in the streets and [09:41] ultimately does find love and [09:43] ultimately has to be sacrificed in the same way. [09:46] Uh, the paranoia, the panic, constant panic. [09:49] So we played on all of that, And I mean, [09:51] it isn't that you show them and you say, [09:52] we're going to do this or we're going to do that. [09:54] It's just it puts you into a kind [09:56] of mood or tone that we could discuss. [09:59] Um, we could discuss, [10:00] uh, the whole style of the picture, really. [10:03] I also remember, I mean, [10:05] there's Marty's very obsessive as a filmmaker. [10:09] He thinks about every single detail. [10:11] And I remember during The Aviator, [10:13] we tried to rip that entire screenplay apart, [10:16] you know, and it didn't work because we realized that [10:19] all of it was kind of infused in John Logan. [10:22] John Logan. Yeah, no, he had it down. [10:24] But that's been our process a lot. [10:25] I think working together is [10:27] the ability to almost have a debate for months, [10:31] always before and lots of [10:33] questions and lots of playing devil's advocate [10:36] about a way to approach things that may [10:38] not be the most obvious direction. [10:41] We're doing that on the new film that we're doing [10:43] now, but it's been, [10:45] you know, absolutely one [10:48] of the most profound learning experiences. [10:50] I think one of the only things I could say [10:52] I would regret about our relationship, [10:55] if anything, is that I've been so focused on what [10:58] I've been doing as an actor. [11:01] You know, you make these decisions, [11:03] you play these characters, [11:04] you try to get into the depth of [11:06] their soul as much as you possibly can. [11:09] And I would have loved to be [11:11] much more of a voyeur if I can. [11:14] Could have been to watch what [11:16] you do behind the camera to. [11:19] Some people have asked me if I wanted to direct. [11:21] I'm like, I would never want to direct. [11:23] I could never do anything close to [11:24] what Martin Scorsese does. [11:26] Why would I do that? [11:27] But if I look back on anything, it's. [11:30] I would have loved to have observed [11:32] that process behind the camera a lot more. [11:35] I think that process, though you're talking about, [11:37] is something that I imagine, um, [11:39] alone in a room with the script or [11:42] the idea and listening to music and [11:44] designing shots and coming up with it, [11:46] that that really is the beginning of the process for me, [11:48] what we were able to do. [11:50] And it's interesting because I'm 83 and, [11:53] you know, I don't want to say your age, you're young yet. [11:55] And, uh, but the point is, [11:58] it's like almost a 30 years difference, [11:59] and it's almost like speaking [12:02] with a contemporary so or working with a contemporary. [12:04] The way I work very closely with with Bob De Niro, uh, [12:08] we sort of came from the same place and at the same the [12:10] same, um, life experience. [12:13] In other words, at that time, you know, [12:15] you heard the Beatles album when the first one came out, [12:18] then you heard the second, then you heard the third. [12:19] It wasn't all at once, you know what I mean? [12:22] So yet we have this ability in, [12:27] um, to collaborate together, [12:29] and it's based on trust and love, and, um, uh, [12:33] we go to places sometimes that are, um, [12:36] uh, at at times feel almost impossible, you know. [12:41] And just thinking about it too, you know, [12:43] and you've said this many times as we've done films [12:47] and worked on characters together very intensely. [12:51] You know, your trust in the ability to follow [12:56] the actor's instinct of what they [12:59] feel that character may mean for them is is, [13:04] um, kind of revolutionary? [13:06] I mean, Marty said many times [13:08] that plot is irrelevant to him. [13:11] He wants to follow the soul of that character. [13:14] And all the plot mechanics or how [13:16] things work out are sort of secondary. [13:19] And I've and I've watched [13:20] you do that in Bob's work, which is, [13:23] you know, besides, uh, [13:25] funny and Kurosawa the greatest. [13:28] Not besides, but the greatest, you know, [13:30] uh, actor, director relationship [13:32] I've ever seen in my life. [13:33] And, and to to be able to do that [13:36] with you and see your trust in me [13:40] through the years to take [13:42] on these certain characters and sort of follow [13:44] that dynamic and push sort of plot points [13:48] aside and go with the soul of [13:49] the character has been extraordinary. [13:52] Well thank you. I my the thing about plot is that yes, [13:56] we need the plot, but the plot will be there, [13:59] we hope, um, if I [14:01] fashion it as as well as possible in the editing. [14:03] But, um, what you're talking about is really, [14:06] uh, the more important elements. [14:09] Like, for example, you take a film like Vertigo, [14:11] the plot, if you just read the plot, it's absurd. [14:15] Well, why do you keep watching it? [14:17] You know, so that's something else. It's cinema. [14:20] It's the performances, it's the color, [14:22] it's the music, it's the angles. [14:25] There's something else going on, [14:26] and we're looking for that something else constantly. [14:28] And it's very hard to [14:30] find a partner that could do that with you. [14:32] So I've been very, very, very fortunate. [14:42] And I hear we're doing a seventh film. [14:45] The seventh seal. [14:47] Yeah. [14:49] This is going to be an interesting one. [14:52] Yeah, I think so. I think so. [14:54] Um, it's, uh, we're supposed to start shooting in. [14:59] Well, February. [15:01] Yeah, something like that. [15:02] Yeah. I mean, oh, [15:09] the performance in, of course, um, [15:12] one, one battle after another is is extraordinary. [15:20] And talk about this guy, [15:22] Paul Thomas Anderson. What about him? [15:25] It's interesting, you know. [15:27] Well, needless to say, [15:29] a lot of these directors have been [15:32] incredibly influenced by this gentleman [15:35] over here, Paul being one of them. [15:36] And I remember meeting Paul very early on in [15:39] my career when I was about to go do Titanic. [15:43] But we were talking about doing Boogie Nights, [15:47] and I was in [15:48] my mother's living room, and I'll never forget, [15:50] I was on a couch and he brought a Laserdisc of of [15:55] Raging Bull and a video cassette of pornography, [16:00] and he said, I want to do the raging bull of pornography. [16:04] Oh, wow. That's interesting. [16:06] And I thought to myself, wow, [16:07] that's going to be pretty difficult. [16:10] But you've been close to [16:12] him over the years and and, you know, [16:14] talking about him is it's interesting because there's [16:18] so much commonality in the way both of you work. [16:22] It's true. Um, his ability to take chances, [16:27] for example, when Benicio del Toro came on set, [16:29] it was it was we waited for him. [16:32] He went to do the a film called Phoenician Scheme. [16:35] And Paul was like. [16:36] And I were like, no, there's [16:37] nobody else that could play this character, [16:38] Sensei Carlos for him. [16:40] And and Benicio came in with [16:42] such specificity about what [16:44] he wanted his character to be, [16:45] the fact that he was this Harriet Tubman for, you know, [16:49] immigrants, that he would have [16:50] this underground sort of [16:52] revolutionary center for himself, [16:54] that what he would do for Bob and what he [16:56] wouldn't do for Bob was very specific. [16:59] He's like, well, if Bob kills [17:00] somebody because originally in the script, [17:02] I was going to kill somebody that was a part of Lockjaw. [17:06] Sean Penn's crew, he's like, [17:07] now I won't help him as much, you know? [17:10] And that was a very pivotal point. [17:12] And that flexibility and the [17:13] ability to take a turn and have the film, [17:17] we essentially went on a completely separate road trip. [17:20] They built this set within two days. [17:23] All that stuff with Benicio and I was [17:26] based on those ideas and the specificity that [17:28] Benicio brought to that character and all [17:31] that was sort of popped up in El Paso, [17:34] and we brought the community, [17:35] the local community into the filming process. [17:39] That was another interesting thing about [17:40] working with Paul is, you know, [17:42] we would sometimes go into [17:44] supermarkets and he'd have [17:46] a fully functioning supermarket, [17:48] like with people coming in and. [17:51] You're shooting in there. [17:51] And we're shooting and they're taking [17:53] their cell phones out and taking pictures. [17:55] And then pretty soon they got [17:57] bored and went on with their shopping, [17:59] and we continued to do the film. [18:01] But, you know, real military that was involved in Ice. [18:05] Corrections officers, people, nurses, [18:08] families that were owned businesses. [18:11] He kind of it's this sort [18:13] of controlled chaos where he just [18:15] threw us into these ecosystems that were fully formed, [18:19] fully functioning and real, [18:21] you know, and that, [18:22] you know, Benicio says it, too. [18:24] That made us kind of have to become leaders in a way, [18:28] for non-actors and telling them what we're going to do. [18:31] Like. [18:32] Generals talking to troops. [18:33] All right, let's all get together. [18:35] I'm going to move here. We're going to move there. [18:37] So that that was an interesting, [18:39] uh, uh, you know, endeavor. [18:42] But also, you know, [18:44] much like you do too, [18:45] with the with the dailies. [18:47] You know, VistaVision was [18:49] a very specific thing that he [18:50] wanted to accomplish with this film, [18:52] bringing these films that, you know, [18:54] Hitchcock used it for, [18:57] for Vertigo, North by Northwest. [18:59] A lot of these cameras hadn't been used in a while, [19:01] but we always had these sort of pop up daily tents. [19:04] And so that gave us [19:07] these abilities to have these sort of screenings, [19:10] because this was a, you know, [19:11] a film that Paul had been working on for 20 years, [19:13] it was hard to imagine what was in his head. [19:15] But when I got to see Sean Penn, [19:18] for example, come in with these military troops, [19:21] I really understood for the first time [19:24] the the magnitude of [19:26] danger that was coming to get my daughter, [19:28] and it gave it all an intensity. [19:31] And he brought Jonny Greenwood's score [19:33] in, in those dailies. [19:35] Yeah. No, but Paul has such a, you know, [19:38] a command of script and he's got it on the page, [19:41] you know, so he could take this is what I mean. [19:43] You could take, you know, Benicio comes in and you. [19:46] And suddenly you want to go another way. [19:47] It's still it's still it's [19:49] still the foundation of it is still there. [19:51] It's still on the page in a way. [19:55] Um, and it has enough breathing room, uh, [19:58] for, uh, what, what you wound up doing with Benicio. [20:02] Mhm. [20:03] Yeah. Those ocean waves. [20:05] Those ocean waves, you know, [20:07] but we got to pivot a lot, which is amazing. [20:10] And, uh, same as you. [20:12] There's a trust in the actors that he hires, [20:14] you know, and their ideas. [20:16] And they're not always good ideas as you know. [20:18] Yes. [20:18] They're not always good. [20:20] No. But sometimes it's a, [20:21] you know, a Tommy gun of ideas. [20:23] And then you and Paul will say, [20:25] now that, that I can work with. [20:27] Yeah, yeah. And it can [20:29] change the course of the entire narrative. [20:31] Well, the whole thing is about being open to it, [20:33] really being open to suggestions. [20:37] Um, there's going to be [20:39] specific times that tell you what I need directly. [20:41] It can't be. It can't be changed. [20:44] Left or right. That's it. It's got to be this way. [20:46] But, you know, if you bring [20:48] life to it and you bring something, [20:49] you got to be open to, [20:50] um, open to letting [20:52] the the soul of the picture come through. [20:55] And it really it has to be done through [20:57] the faces up on the screen [20:58] and your behavior on the screen. [21:00] That's that's the key. [21:01] So, you know, one has to learn that it took me years to, [21:05] to, um, to fully understand it. [21:09] Um, and I was very lucky, [21:11] very lucky over the years. [21:13] But, um, uh. [21:15] Well, it seemed like he [21:18] understood it very early on to me, I don't know. [21:20] Well, it's a matter of how to get it, though. [21:22] You want that? But how do you get it? [21:24] And it took it took a while to find. [21:26] And also it depends on the people [21:28] you're working with too. [21:29] Well, I you know, I tried to articulate this. [21:32] I think we did a talk show once. [21:35] I forget what it was, but in Japan. [21:37] No, no, it was a talk show here in New York, [21:39] and I was trying to articulate what [21:41] I felt watching Taxi Driver for the first time. [21:44] I don't think I really did it, [21:46] but it was the first time, [21:47] you know, the specificity. [21:49] And I watched the recent documentary [21:51] about you of being humiliated [21:54] for the character and that shot that you [21:56] created with Travis Bickle trying to ask her on a date, [21:59] and you couldn't bear to look at him even, [22:01] and you panned the camera over. [22:03] I was one of, you know, [22:05] that that was the feeling, [22:07] uh, that that I'll never forget [22:08] watching that film for the first time. [22:10] The humiliation that I felt for him, [22:12] the sadness, the loneliness and the fact that he. [22:16] You know, he tricked me. [22:17] You know, this character tricked me. [22:20] But you, you know, you again did that in, [22:22] um, in King of Comedy, [22:24] which I thought was so interesting because, [22:27] you know, in a theater, [22:28] you want the rest of the world to disappear. [22:30] You want to be a voyeur, [22:31] you want to enter into another world. [22:33] And there's nothing like feeling [22:35] that humiliation and sadness for a character. [22:38] So I remember that very early on. [22:40] That's interesting because that's [22:41] the first shot I thought [22:42] of when I was laying out the stuff on the page, [22:46] the drawings and notes and how to shoot the picture. [22:48] The first said the whole essence of it is [22:50] this as if he's on the phone, you can't take it. [22:52] It's just too much. [22:53] So we track away and we see a long hallway, [22:56] you know, and we did a take with somebody [22:58] came out of the elevator, but it broke it. [23:00] It didn't work. Um, and, [23:02] um, the hallway had to be empty, you know. [23:06] And I think over the years, [23:07] I've learned the times when there's [23:10] malleability and ways to pivot in the storyline. [23:13] But I've also learned the times [23:15] where you have a specific shot list. [23:17] Yes. Yeah. I want Siri. [23:18] For example, power coming up in The Aviator. [23:21] Oh, I'm sorry about that. [23:22] Yeah, we did this sequence in The Aviator, [23:25] and I think it was two days and I felt [23:28] like 20 different shots of me with the throttle. [23:31] They were all in different angles. [23:32] They're all they're all in the film. [23:33] Yeah, sometimes only for 12 frames, [23:35] but they're there and the whole thing [23:37] was was designed for me on [23:38] the page in my head with the editing [23:40] in terms of it edited on the page, [23:42] and then translated that to, [23:46] um, what became like storyboards. [23:49] And then that was translated for the first time, [23:52] um, to, uh, pre-visualization. [23:55] And so it was what I also worked on, you know, [23:58] in the fight scenes in Raging Bull or in some of [24:01] the music scenes in The Last Waltz or, [24:04] you know, uh, a big [24:05] storm sequence at the end of Cape Fear. [24:07] That's all designed on the page. [24:10] Um, and we know we're going in today. [24:12] We're getting shots 24 and 38. [24:14] That's it, you know, [24:16] and the pictures are there. [24:17] And that's how you know, everybody does. [24:19] Cameron. They all do that, right? [24:21] I mean that's you have to have that. [24:22] But here this was this was, uh, [24:25] the business of the Hercules, uh, [24:28] finally, finally flying, actually the plane. [24:32] And so it had to be [24:32] a specially constructed edited sequence. [24:35] So every shot, there's [24:36] no such thing as getting an insert. [24:38] The problem is you got to get the insert. [24:40] You have to design it. [24:41] You have to conceive it. [24:43] You have to actually, [24:44] um, have a point of view with the lens. [24:49] Often I've had other people. [24:51] We were doing it on on aviator. [24:53] It was a close up of the dish. [24:55] You were served at the coconut grove [24:58] with the meat and the peas on the plate. [25:01] Right? Remember? And I, [25:03] while we were shooting something [25:04] else, I said, no, I can't wait. [25:05] We're running. We're running late. [25:07] So I had another second unit [25:09] on the side and I would have a video monitor, [25:13] and they were getting the shot I designed for the plate, [25:16] but I would keep sending it [25:18] back because the peas weren't. [25:19] Right. Right. Um, they just weren't. [25:22] And. Yeah. And so that [25:25] that's the kind of thing that had to be specific. [25:28] And everybody started laughing. [25:29] I said, no, no, it isn't quite right. [25:31] But I also remember you designing [25:33] a whole sequence based on the research that I [25:36] told you about after living with somebody who had [25:39] the germaphobia and was had OCD. [25:43] We did all the strings in the room. [25:45] And but it was also the idea that when [25:49] Jude Law comes over Errol Flynn and [25:51] grabs that pea from my plate. [25:53] You design multiple perspectives [25:56] of how I was so disgusted that he touched my. [25:59] Plate. [26:00] That it was now contaminated, [26:02] and the idea of the napkin being [26:04] thrown under and me pushing the plate away, [26:07] and the fact that Howard felt there was [26:08] an imaginary germ cloud in front of him. [26:11] Well, you designed 4 or 5 more shots on the spot. [26:13] He was right about doorknobs. [26:15] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [26:16] You know, I'm seriously, [26:18] there's a sign saying wrap up. [26:20] Oh, yeah. Okay, great. Let's wrap up. [26:24] Is that okay? How do we wrap up? [26:26] Thank you all for being here tonight. We appreciate it. [26:30] Thank you. ```json [{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","@id":"https://time.com/7337802/entertainer-of-the-year-leonardo-dicaprio-martin-scorsese-work-together-characters-soul/","mainEntityOfPage":{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https://time.com/7337802/entertainer-of-the-year-leonardo-dicaprio-martin-scorsese-work-together-characters-soul/"},"headline":"Entertainer of the Year Leo DiCaprio Reflects With Martin Scorsese on Making Movies With Soul","datePublished":"2025-12-11T07:15:00.000Z","dateModified":"2026-10-19T08:13:17.821Z","description":"TIME’s 2025 Entertainer of the Year and his mentor and longtime collaborator Martin Scorsese talked making movies that follow the soul of a character.","url":"https://time.com/7337802/entertainer-of-the-year-leonardo-dicaprio-martin-scorsese-work-together-characters-soul/","keywords":["movies","overnight","sponsorshipblock","News desk edits"],"thumbnailUrl":"https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/bltb234f14b4cd1a797/6998cc3fe2d64bb827c5fec2/DiCaprio-Scorsese.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=1200:675&height=675","author":[{"@type":"Person","name":"Charlotte Hu","jobTitle":"Associate Editor","url":"https://time.com/author/charlotte-hu/"}],"articleSection":"Entertainment","image":[{"@type":"ImageObject","url":"https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/bltb234f14b4cd1a797/6998cc3fe2d64bb827c5fec2/DiCaprio-Scorsese.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=1200:675&height=675","width":1200,"height":675,"headline":"2025 A Year In TIME Event","caption":"2025 A Year In TIME Event","creditText":"Kevin Mazur—Getty Images for TIME","representativeOfPage":true}],"publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"Time","url":"https://time.com/","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","url":"https://time.com/images/logo.png","width":528,"height":156},"foundingDate":"March 3, 1923","sameAs":["https://www.facebook.com/time","https://www.instagram.com/time/?hl=en","https://twitter.com/time","https://www.pinterest.com/timemagazine"]}},{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"BreadcrumbList","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"item":{"@id":"https://time.com/section/entertainment/","name":"Entertainment"}},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"item":{"@id":"https://time.com/tag/movies/","name":"movies"}},{"@type":"ListItem","position":3,"item":{"@id":"https://time.com/7337802/entertainer-of-the-year-leonardo-dicaprio-martin-scorsese-work-together-characters-soul/","name":"Entertainer of the Year Leo DiCaprio Reflects With Martin Scorsese on Making Movies With Soul"}}]},{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"VideoObject","name":"Entertainer of the Year Leo DiCaprio Reflects With Martin Scorsese on Making Movies With Soul","description":"For Academy Award winners and long-time collaborators Leonardo DiCaprio and Martin Scorsese, a dissection of their creative processes over dinner is no strange occasion. Beyond being filmmaking partners, the two are also friends, with DiCaprio telling TIME in an interview that Scorsese’s Wolf of Wall Street was one of the “most free and exciting and spontaneous and hilarious film productions I’ve ever been a part of. I’ve never seen Martin Scorsese that happy on a set in my life.” So it was only natural for Scorsese to join Dicaprio, TIME’s 2025 “Entertainer of the Year,” in conversation onstage at the “A Year in TIME” event in New York City on Dec. 10.","thumbnailUrl":"https://cdn.jwplayer.com/v2/media/bfMGLhBi/poster.jpg?width=720","uploadDate":"2025-12-11T07:12:50.000Z","contentUrl":"https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/bfMGLhBi.m3u8","embedUrl":"https://time.com/7337802/entertainer-of-the-year-leonardo-dicaprio-martin-scorsese-work-together-characters-soul/","duration":"PT26M35S","potentialAction":{"@type":"SeekToAction","target":"https://time.com/7337802/entertainer-of-the-year-leonardo-dicaprio-martin-scorsese-work-together-characters-soul/?jw_start={seek_to_second_number}","startOffset-input":"required name=seek_to_second_number"}}] ```