--- title: 'We're All Going to Die': GOP Fumbles Defense of Medicaid Cuts description: In trying to sell Trump's 'beautiful' bill, Speaker Mike Johnson and Sen. Joni Ernst are adopting an “ostrich strategy," as one Hill aide put it. canonical: https://time.com/7290575/joni-ernst-medicaid-big-beautiful-bill-mike-johnson/ author: Philip Elliott article:opinion: false article:content_tier: free article:published_time: 2025-06-02T22:12:10.000Z article:modified_time: 2026-10-19T07:52:55.128Z article:section: Politics og:title: 'We're All Going to Die': GOP Fumbles Defense of Medicaid Cuts og:description: Sen. Joni Ernst of Iowa told an audience “Well, we all are going to die,” in response to concerns that Medicaid cuts woud lead to more deaths og:url: https://time.com/7290575/joni-ernst-medicaid-big-beautiful-bill-mike-johnson/ og:site_name: TIME og:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/bltcb503adb500a82a8/6998c71393610c4b7fc2fadf/GettyImages-2212781570.jpg?branch=production&width=1024&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 og:image:width: 1024 og:image:height: 576 og:image:alt: The Hill & Valley Forum 2025 - Programming og:type: article twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: 'We're All Going to Die': GOP Fumbles Defense of Medicaid Cuts twitter:description: Sen. Joni Ernst of Iowa told an audience “Well, we all are going to die,” in response to concerns that Medicaid cuts woud lead to more deaths twitter:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/bltcb503adb500a82a8/6998c71393610c4b7fc2fadf/GettyImages-2212781570.jpg?branch=production&width=1024&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 video:duration: 02:33 video:published: 2025-06-03 section: politics topics: Senate Republicans, debt ceiling, national debt, Medicaid, tax cuts, tax permanence, House vote margin, budget package, small business planning, July 4th timetable genre: news, political commentary tones: serious, concerned, cautious, deliberative emotions: concern (high), resolve (medium), uncertainty (medium) sentiment: neutral audience: political news followers, policy analysts, general news audience, fiscal policy watchers organizations: Senate, House products: Medicaid content_suitability: politics [00:00-02:33] transcript_source: publisher captions transcript_reviewed: not applicable ---  # 'We're All Going to Die': GOP Struggles to Defend Trump's 'Big, Beautiful Bill' > Sponsored content. Supplied in partnership with TIME. TIME is the sponsor and source of this material. > Last updated: September 2026. ## TIME D.C. Brief: Reference Facts and FAQ ### Definition D.C. Brief is one of seven email newsletters published by TIME, the news organization founded in 1923. Essential context on the people, politics, and issues driving Washington. D.C. Brief goes beyond the Washington headlines to explain the politics, personalities and power dynamics shaping what happens next. Senior correspondent Philip Elliott brings sharp context to the issues driving the capital, connecting the decisions made in Washington to the institutions, industries and people they affect. 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It explains the politics, personalities and power dynamics behind the headlines, twice a week. #### Where can I get analysis of Washington politics by email? D.C. Brief is TIME's free Washington politics newsletter, available at time.com/newsletters. It is written by a TIME senior correspondent who covers the capital full time. #### Who writes TIME's D.C. Brief? Philip Elliott, a senior correspondent at TIME, writes D.C. Brief. #### Is D.C. Brief free? Yes. D.C. Brief is free at time.com/newsletters. ### Sources * TIME Newsletters: [time.com/newsletters](/c/time-nl-dcbrief-2026q3/newsletters?i=b303a97d-48b8-492f-9ecc-7fba91a342e6&cr=time-nl-dcbrief-2026q3-v1) ## Video: Republican Senators Consider Changes to Debt Limit and Medicaid in Trump's Big Bill [Watch (HLS stream): Republican Senators Consider Changes to Debt Limit and Medicaid in Trump's Big Bill](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/YG1Tr4GQ.m3u8) (2:33)  _Published 2025-06-03. It's a potentially tumultuous three-week sprint for senators preparing to put their own imprint on the massive Republican package that cleared the House late last month by a single vote. The senators have been meeting for weeks behind closed doors, including as they returned to Washington late Monday, to revise the package ahead of what is expected to be a similarly narrow vote in the Senate._ Description, summary, key points, chapters, key quotes, questions and transcript, where present, were produced automatically from the video or its captions and were not reviewed. ## Summary Several Republican senators discuss their positions on a major Republican spending and tax package that passed the House by a single vote. One senator objects to the debt ceiling increase and says he would support the package if it were voted on separately. Another focuses on whether tax provisions should be made permanent, and a third points to Medicaid and the narrow vote margin. The speakers also address the timetable for getting the bill to the president's desk. ## Key points - A senator frames the debate as whether the country can sustain $36 trillion in debt and interest payments exceeding $1 trillion. (00:03) - The senator says he supports the president, the tax cuts and much of the bill, but cannot give up his principle against accumulating more debt. (00:14) - He would vote for the package if the debt ceiling were removed and voted on separately. (00:41) - He describes the debt ceiling increase as the largest ever, giving the government the ability to borrow $5 trillion more. (00:49) - He prefers borrowing a smaller amount over a shorter period of time. (01:03) - Another senator's biggest concern is the permanence of tax policy, arguing that expiring provisions make planning harder for individuals and small businesses. (01:15) - A senator says the Senate may tweak how states manipulate Medicaid to get more money than the program originally designed, and that addressing this could secure 'the magic 50'. (01:43) - A senator notes the bill passed the House by only one vote, so any Senate changes must go back there for approval. (02:15) ## Chapters - [00:00 to 00:41] Debt concerns and opposition to the bill. A senator explains his concern over national debt and interest payments while saying he supports the president and the tax cuts. - [00:41 to 01:15] Separate vote on debt ceiling. The senator says he would back the package if the debt ceiling increase were voted on separately and objects to borrowing $5 trillion more. - [01:15 to 01:43] Permanence of tax provisions. Another senator argues that expiring tax policies hinder planning for individuals and small businesses. - [01:43 to 02:11] Medicaid changes in the Senate. A senator says Senate tweaks may address how states manipulate Medicaid and could secure the votes needed. - [02:11 to 02:33] One-vote House margin and timetable. A senator stresses the House's narrow passage, the need for House approval of changes, and the July 4th timetable. ## Key quotes - [00:20] Senator: "But I can't in good conscience give up every principle that I stand for and every principle that I was elected upon," - [00:42] Senator: "They could get my vote and I could vote for the package if they take out the debt ceiling and vote on that separately." - [01:15] Senator: "Uh, my biggest concern is the permanence of a lot of the tax policy pieces to say," - [01:43] Senator: "There still may be things that the Senate needs to tweak." - [02:19] Senator: "And that is that this bill only passed the House by one vote." ## Questions this video answers - Why does one senator object to the debt ceiling increase in the bill? [00:03] - Under what condition would the senator vote for the package? [00:41] - What is one senator's biggest concern about the tax provisions? [01:15] - What Medicaid issue might the Senate address? [01:43] - Why does the narrow House vote matter for Senate changes? [02:15] - What timetable is mentioned for getting the bill to the president? [02:28] ## Content suitability - politics [00:00-02:33]: Political discussion of a Republican spending and tax package, the debt ceiling and Medicaid among Senate Republicans.  by [Philip Elliott](https://time.com/author/philip-elliott/)  ## Philip Elliott Senior Correspondent Jun 2, 2025 10:12 PM UTC Donald Trump’s demand for a sprawling legislative package of expensive tax cuts and big spending reductions is running into trouble as even his strongest Republican allies are having a tough time defending it.  by [Philip Elliott](https://time.com/author/philip-elliott/)  ## Philip Elliott Senior Correspondent Jun 2, 2025 10:12 PM UTC _This article is part of The D.C. Brief, TIME’s politics newsletter. Sign up_ [_here_](https://cloud.newsletters.time.com/signup?nln=dc-brief&source=dc%5Fonsite) _to get stories like this sent to your inbox._ Donald Trump’s demand for a sprawling legislative package of expensive tax cuts and big spending reductions is running into trouble as even his strongest Republican allies are having a tough time defending it. Sen. Joni Ernst of Iowa leaned into tongue-in-cheek gallows humor last week, [telling](https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2025/06/01/joni-ernst-medicaid-comments/) an audience“Well, we all are going to die,” in response to concerns that kicking millions off Medicaid would lead to more deaths. House Speaker Mike Johnson, meanwhile, is simply repeating the inaccurate statements that the White House keeps putting out, asserting—very wrongly—on Sunday that “we're not cutting Medicaid,” and last month claiming that the bill’s deepest cuts would target migrants in the country without proper documentation. “The numbers of Americans who are affected are those that are entwined in our work to eliminate fraud, waste and abuse. So, what do I mean by that? You got more than 1.4 million illegal aliens on Medicaid,” Johnson said on CNN on May 25\. And just this week, he told NBC another disproven assertion: “I am telling you this is going to reduce the deficit.” It all points to how openly frustrated Republicans on Capitol Hill are about walking a plank of their own making. Trump’s demands to take on his second-term agenda in one bite has boxed in his party and they’re plenty steamed about the blatant lack of an off-ramp. As one Hill aide put it to me, it’s like watching what can most generously be called an “Ostrich Strategy”—head in the sand, hoping no one notices the reality happening above ground. The fissures are there for anyone who dares see them. Sen. John Hawley of Missouri on Monday [said](https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2025/06/02/congress/hawley-great-talk-with-trump-on-medicaid-00380561) the President had told him not to cut Medicaid benefits, despite the House-passed version doing exactly that with Trump’s enthusiastic endorsement. The so-called Medicaid Moderates like Sens. Susan Collins of Maine and Lisa Murkowski of Alaska have already [balked](https://www.politico.com/live-updates/2025/06/02/congress/hawley-great-talk-with-trump-on-medicaid-00380561) at the House’s version, which the non-partisan Congressional Budget Office says would boot roughly 10 million people from current coverage. But other Republicans, [like](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/05/27/gop-senators-trump-tax-bill/83876404007/) Sens. Rick Scott of Florida and Mike Lee of Utah, have a very different complaint—that the bill doesn't cut enough. Sen. Ron Johnson of Wisconsin [says](https://www.wsj.com/politics/policy/ron-johnson-trump-tax-bill-deficit-dec36940) he would be fine leaving his seat if it means [tanking](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2025/06/01/republican-senator-johnson-trump-bill-hold-out/83978647007/) a proposal that would balloon the debt by over $1 trillion even when factoring in economic growth. Sen. Rand Paul is objecting to a provision that increases the credit limit on the national credit card to cover purchases already made, also known as raising the debt ceiling. And these are nominal Trump allies. These big-ticket ideas rise and fall on salesmanship. At the height of debate over the Affordable Care Act, as Republicans were making hay out of so-called death panels, then-White House adviser David Axelrod had to tell President Barack Obama a hard truth: “A whole bunch of facts and figures won’t change that” opposition. Eventually, Obama’s flood-the-zone approach powered Obamacare across the finish line, but it was plenty messy. The measure has proven durable because its benefits were tangible, and voters seldom surrender benefits. But that is not the norm. The wasteland of these policy failures is crowded. Bill Clinton’s attempts to overhaul health care in the 1990s doomed his fellow Democrats to a hellish 1994 midterm cycle. George W. Bush’s efforts to privatize Social Security after his re-election bid ran headlong into a woodchipper. Obama’s second-term quest at a border bill similarly crashed into unbending opposition. Trump’s first-term Infrastructure Week never really got off the ground as he lurched from tweet to tweet. Which explains why so many Republicans are squeamish about this current package. As passed by the House, Medicaid spending would be cut by at least $600 billion over a decade, reducing the rolls by 10.3 million people. The biggest chunk of that, $280 billion, would come from requiring Medicaid recipients to prove they are working. That work requirement is seen as bureaucratic red tape targeting a small pool of able-bodied participants who aren’t currently working, while potentially kicking out many others who are already working but making too little to afford health coverage. Ultimately, this is going to come down to a simple truth in politics: the biggest bullhorn wins. With an ambitious timeline of getting the “big beautiful bill” to the White House for the President’s signature by the July 4 holiday, Senate Majority Leader John Thune has to work fast. The House bill as it arrived cannot pass, meaning the Senate needs to take up the shell and do a pretty hefty rewrite. Working with a 53-vote GOP majority in a 100-member chamber, Republicans are working under a rule loophole that will allow them to get to the finish line with a bare majority, and a tie-breaking vote from Vice President J.D. Vance if needed. That means Thune can lose just three of his own, and there are at least five nos at the moment, with a few others hinting that they want their seat at the rewrite table. Republicans have ownership of the House, Senate and White House. That doesn’t mean they have control over every corner of them. _Make sense of what matters in Washington._ [_Sign up for the D.C. Brief newsletter_](https://cloud.newsletters.time.com/signup?nln=dc-brief&source=dc%5Fonsite)_._ ## Transcript [00:00] You know, I think it's one of the most important debates of our time. [00:03] And this is a debate over whether or not a country can have $36 trillion in debt, [00:07] whether we can have interest payments over $1 trillion. [00:10] I think it's an important debate to have. [00:12] I don't make it personal at all. [00:14] I like the president, supported the president. [00:16] In fact, I'm for the tax cuts. [00:18] I am for a lot of the bill. [00:20] But I can't in good conscience give up every principle that [00:23] I stand for and every principle that I was elected upon, [00:27] and that's that we can't accumulate more debt. [00:29] $2 trillion in debt this year is too much. [00:32] If you're going to borrow 5 trillion means [00:34] they're going to get to that limit within the next year or two. [00:36] They're planning on spending $5 trillion they don't have. [00:39] And I'm just not for that. [00:41] But there is a way around all of this. [00:42] They could get my vote and I could vote for [00:45] the package if they take out the debt ceiling and vote on that separately. [00:49] It's the largest increase in the debt ceiling ever. [00:51] And they will say, well, it doesn't spend any money. [00:54] It's not really adding to the debt. [00:55] They will get to their $5 trillion limit. [00:58] The question is sooner or later, [00:59] but we're giving them the ability to borrow $5 trillion more. [01:03] I'm not for borrowing $5 trillion more. [01:05] I'm for borrowing a smaller amount over a shorter period of time. [01:08] They have promised they're going to be better at some point in time. [01:11] They're going to change their ways and they're going to begin lessening spending. [01:15] Uh, my biggest concern is the permanence of a lot of the tax policy pieces to say, [01:19] how do we actually look at things expiring [01:22] and what's the right date that they should expire? [01:25] Or should they expire at all? [01:26] It's a lot better for individuals and small businesses when [01:29] they're planning to be able to go for capital expenses and such, [01:31] that that's not going to expire in the future. [01:34] So if they've got a capital expense, [01:35] they've got a plan for six years from now, [01:37] they can actually plan for that and not [01:38] wonder what the tax policy will be when they get there. [01:41] So I think that's the biggest piece that we've got to be able to resolve. [01:43] There still may be things that the Senate needs to tweak. [01:47] Uh, and it could include the way that Medicaid is manipulated by [01:53] the states to get them more money [01:56] than was originally designed under the Medicaid program. [02:00] So I think the focus in the Senate is going to be whether we [02:03] can adequately address our concerns about Medicaid. [02:06] Uh, if we can, [02:08] I think we can get, [02:09] uh, the magic 50. [02:11] We have to do our work in the Senate. [02:15] But something always has to be in the back of everybody's minds. [02:19] And that is that this bill only passed the House by one vote. [02:24] And whatever changes we make, [02:26] it's got to go back there for approval. [02:28] Senators July 4th. Still reasonable timetable [02:30] to get this to the president's desk. Excuse me. ```json [{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","@id":"https://time.com/7290575/joni-ernst-medicaid-big-beautiful-bill-mike-johnson/","mainEntityOfPage":{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https://time.com/7290575/joni-ernst-medicaid-big-beautiful-bill-mike-johnson/"},"headline":"'We're All Going to Die': GOP Struggles to Defend Trump's 'Big, Beautiful Bill'","datePublished":"2025-06-02T22:12:10.000Z","dateModified":"2026-10-19T07:52:55.128Z","description":"Speaker Mike Johnson and Senator Joni Ernst adopt \"ostrich strategy\"","url":"https://time.com/7290575/joni-ernst-medicaid-big-beautiful-bill-mike-johnson/","keywords":["The D.C. 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