What It Means to Be a Man, According to UFC’s Dana White

The UFC will hold, on September 14, the first-ever live sporting event at the Sphere in Las Vegas. Thanks to Tom Brady. 

When U2 opened up the Sphere, the world’s largest spherical structure with a 160,000-sq.-ft. LED screen that wraps around the interior, last September with a concert residency, Brady called UFC CEO and president Dana White to ask if he wanted to join him at a show. White agreed, and while watching Bono and The Edge perform, became smitten with the state-of-the-art venue and moved to secure a UFC date there.  

UFC 306, which unfolds two days before Mexican Independence day, will feature a film on the history of Mexico, played in 90-second chapters between fights on the Sphere’s interior display. A bantamweight title fight, between Sean O’Malley of the U.S. and Merab Dvalishvili of Georgia, is the main event; a women’s bout, between Alexandra Grasso of Mexico and Valentina Shevchenko of Kyrgyzstan, is the co-main event. 

White sat down with TIME in New York City on Sept. 9, the day before his friend Donald Trump— whom White introduced at the Republican National Convention in July—debated Vice President Kamala Harris in Philadelphia, to discuss the challenges of hosting this first-in-kind sporting spectacle, masculinity in modern America, and the future of the fight business.

(This conversation has been edited and condensed for length and clarity) 

What attracted you and the UFC to the Sphere in Las Vegas?

So I went to the U2 event, and halfway through the event, I go, “Man, this, this is incredible.” So I literally called my head of production during the event, and said, “Hey, I don't know what you're doing next weekend, but cancel it. You and the boys are coming here. I want to do the Sphere. We’ve got to figure this out.” I saw the possibilities of doing something unique and fun and challenging all at the same time.

What’s been the biggest challenge in staging a sports production like the UFC in the Sphere?  

It’s all been challenging. The first was, how the f-ck do we light this thing? Every event we've ever done has a centerhung. A big lighting grid, which not only has the lights, but the camera, mikes, audio, all that stuff is in there. All that goes away. It starts with the lighting, and then we get into the creative.

A big boxing match, between superstar Canelo Álvarez of Mexico and Edgar Berlanga, is happening on the same night. That competition has put pressure on ticket prices and sales for UFC 306. Have ticket sales been as robust as you originally thought? 

This is the biggest gate in UFC history. It's going to be $22, $23 million, and we have the most pre-buys on pay-per-view in the history of the company. So, yes, the Canelo fight will go on that night. And I think that there are a lot of people who are boxing fans that are going to go to Canelo fight, and there are a lot of people that want to experience this at the Sphere. Listen, I love this kind of stuff anyway. Let's let the games begin.

Given all the additional production involved in this event, do you anticipate it making a profit for the UFC? 

A regular UFC event takes us to two and a half million bucks. The budget for this was $8 million because we didn't know. We're at $20 million. It’s like building a house. But we did really well with sponsorship and a lot of other things. It'll be very profitable.

How do you see sports consumption changing going forward, and what will the UFC do to adjust to these changes? 

A lot of interesting things happened during COVID, and one of the biggest was, we cannot live without sports. People were losing their minds. I was losing my mind without sports. Sports rights just continue to go like this. [Points upward.] And just when you think sports can't get any bigger, they just do. Guys that bought NBA teams for $300 million are now worth five-and-a half billion. There are a million other examples I could throw at you.

Streaming is the future. The world continues to get smaller and smaller and smaller. When you wrap your head around that, when I'm talking about streaming, when you think about the ceiling on this business, there's 8 billion people on earth. I continue to reinvest in this business and open performance institutes around the world. When you and I were growing up, your parents would put you in karate and Tae Kwon Do. This is the new martial art for children, men, and women. This is a massive business.

Power Slap is making its international debut. Why do you think that business will be successful? 

Power Slap is the most successful business that I've ever been a part of in such a short amount of time. [In] 19 months, we have 17 million followers. We have some of the biggest videos in sports on social media, more sponsors than the UFC had in 10 years, and a bigger television-rights deal than the UFC had in 10 years. And what's crazy is, they're saying all the same things they said about the UFC when we started. Literally identical. How gross it is, how stupid it is. “So you can punch a guy, then jump on top of him and start pounding him?” “It's disgusting.” “It's not a real sport.” Literally, I heard all this sh-t before. 

Here's the reality. There are 8 billion people in the world. Some people will like it, and some people won't. But when you're dealing with the number of 8 billion, there are enough that you have a real business on your hands. I used to say that the UFC would be bigger than boxing. And everybody said that I was an idiot. This will be bigger than the UFC.

And the reason that I believe this is, first of all, the younger generation loves it. The African American community loves it. The list goes on and on. When you get into these different parts of the world, they really love this stuff. And we've always been trying to break into India. We thought we would find somebody who could become an Indian champ. This is huge in India, huge. And you don't have to train for 10 years to do this. This thing is very fun and very interesting. And again, the success of the UFC, a major part of that is the live event that we put on. Nobody walks out of the UFC live event and goes, “Yeah, I don't ever want to come to one of these again.” We've done the same thing for Slap.

Why, in your mind, is Power Slap not “gross” or unsafe? 

Let me put it this way. If you look at boxing, right, these guys train and spar for months leading up to a fight, then they go in there and they fight 12 rounds. You've seen the UFC fights, knock-down, drag-’em-out wars. These guys go in and take three slaps or less. And they go through all the same medical testing that professional fighters do. We spend the money. As long as you know you have two healthy athletes going in to compete, the proper medical attention is there that night, and they get the proper medical attention after, you take a huge portion of the risk out. And when you talk about me personally, who's got a better track record than I do? There's never been a death or serious injury in 30 years of the UFC. Wrap your head around that. The wars that have happened, elbows, knees, slams. Cheerleading can't say that.

But CTE diagnoses may come out later. 

That’s a fact. Getting punched in the head, or slapped in the head, or heading a ball, or hitting with helmets in football, it’s bad for you. So as a grown adult living in America, you have the right to choose what you want to do. If you want to play soccer and head a ball, you want to play football from peewee to college and take the head blows that you do, or if you want to go out and professionally fight, there are inherent risks. What I try to do is, I make sure that I spend all the money that I possibly can to take as much risk out of it as possible for the health and safety and the life of the people who complete. 

I used to box when I was younger. I went in and I did one of those brain studies. I have black spots all over my brain from what I did. I wouldn't take one back one punch. Not one. The position that I'm in right here, right now, today, I wouldn't take one punch back because I loved it that much. 

And the doctors all talk about, “Somebody could die”—I got news for all the doctors. We're all gonna die. How do you want to live your life? What do you love and what are you passionate about? People always ask me, what if your daughter wanted to fight? If she really loved it, am I going to tell her no? It's what she wants to do.

This is the first time a UFC fight night has a title sponsor – UFC 306 is the Riyadh Season Noche UFC. You’ve also held events in Saudi Arabia. Why are you comfortable doing business with Saudi Arabia despite the kingdom’s human-rights record?  

Turki [Alalshikh] reached out to me. He's a huge fan of combat sports. And he wanted to be a part of the Sphere. You know, these guys are getting into everything, boxing, golf, God knows what else. He wanted to sponsor this event, he loved it, he believed in it. And as far as doing business with Saudi Arabia, everybody's doing business with Saudi Arabia. 

You interrupted a family vacation in Italy to introduce former President Donald Trump at the Republican National Convention. Looking back, are you glad you did that? 

Yeah. Listen, I love the guy. I've been friends with him for many years. He is one of the best human beings I've ever met. Usually in that part of the convention, it's a family member who always introduces, and the fact that he asked me, and the fact that his family also thought it should be me is probably one of the greatest honors of all time for me.

Why do you think he asked you instead of a family member? 

His family has done it the last however many times. Listen, he and I are really, really good friends. What I think, and from what his kids have told me, I am the one guy he connects with, they call it “bro out,” we bro out together. He is a huge fight fan. You cannot have a conversation with him without him bringing up fights. He knows everything that's going on. Originally, venues didn’t want us. We went to the Taj. He got the business. He understood it. He and I hit it off.

Every good thing that happened to me in my career, Donald Trump was the first guy to either pick up the phone and call or send something. We were on the cover of the New York Times, and he sent it and he wrote on it, “Congratulations, Dana. I always knew you were going to do this.” Every time I talk to this guy, the first question is, “How is your family?” He's a good man.

In your introduction you read a text that Trump sent you, saying about your appearance “think of it as the biggest fight you've ever had, a fight for our country and even the world.” Do you agree with that sentiment and why?

I do. America needs a strong leader, and I think the world needs a strong America. At the end of the day, I'm not a very political person. I don't attack people or dislike people who are on the other side. This country was built off hard work, ideas, thinking outside the box, debating. Many parts of me are liberal and many parts of me are conservative. When you're conservative in the right places and liberal in the right places, it's the perfect combo. The world has become way too political, and I think social media has played a big role in that. But yeah, I lean more right than I do left right now. And I just want to bring common sense back. Want some peace in the world. And I truly believe, friendship aside, that Donald Trump can fix a lot of the issues that are out there right now.

Do you believe that Kamala Harris can’t be that leader?

I do. I strongly believe it. If you listen to her without a teleprompter, it’s like, what? And I've never heard somebody talk so much and say nothing. That's my opinion of Kamala Harris. Do I think she's going to sit in the room with world leaders from the Middle East and Russia and Iran? No, I don't believe that.

A lot of the rhetoric around the RNC seemed to center around the idea that Donald Trump needs to save the country. What’s so wrong with the country that we need Donald Trump to save us?

I'm not that guy that thinks anything needs to be saved. But you have to be honest with yourself. Let me ask you a question: Who the f-ck is running the country right now? They're saying that Biden is unfit to run. He's the f-cking President of the United States. She’s the Vice President, and she's telling everybody what she's gonna do when she gets in there. You're in there. You've been there for three and a half years. What are you talking about? This makes no sense. 

Trump just came to the New York fight, and Secret Service crossed each other and they said that Biden's granddaughter was at the UFC event. And I said, "Well, get her and bring her to me. I'd love to meet her.” When she heard Trump was coming, she left. I wish she didn't. I would have loved to have met her. [The White House declined to comment.]

Guess what's gonna happen to me if Kamala Harris wins the Presidential election? I'm going to work, and do everything that I do the same as I do it. I'm an American. And whoever is sitting in that office is my President. I’m going to live my life. 

Coming out of the convention, there’s been a fair bit of commentary about masculinity. The RNC featured a speech from Hulk Hogan, you calling President Trump a “real American badass,” Trump walking on the stage to “It’s a Man’s Man’s Man’s World” by James Brown. The DNC featured a somewhat gentler form of masculinity, highlighting things like Tim Walz’s role as a high school teacher and Second Gentleman Doug Emhoff's self-effacing humor. Commentators have labeled it “toxic” vs “tonic” masculinity. Do you think our politics have offered competing visions of what it means to be a man?

It's a great question. This friend of mine was telling me, she’s got a girlfriend who was saying, “You know what, I'm way more attracted to Trump's supporters. I like real men.” It’s funny, it’s fascinating, and interesting that there is so much emphasis on, what is a real man? What's he supposed to do? I don't really know what to make of it. But I think that you are who you are. I f-cking love Kid Rock and his music. But you know what? I don't hunt. I don't kill animals. If there's f-cking a Big Rack deer in my backyard, I want to see it, not f-cking shoot it. 

Everybody is different, and women are attracted to different types of men. Can’t we all just get along and do our thing? 

Well, what, in your mind, does it mean to be a man? 

That I can answer. In my world, I run a company. I am the leader of that company. You lead by example. Do you really care about your employees? Do you really care about who they are and what's going on with them in their life? I would say most don’t. I definitely care about my people. Every Christmas party, I would stand up and say, “I love you guys. You're the best.” UFC is this rocket ship of success. Then we go into the scariest time in our lifetime. We didn’t lay off one employee, we fought through COVID, we did it together. And we became a much stronger company. Number one.

Number two, I believe that, as a man, there’s all this talk about men’s mental health—I can’t stand that sh-t. Yes, guess what? Life is hard. It’s a nasty, ugly world out there. It’s not perfect. And you can’t afford to be a man and talk publicly about, “Oh, my mental health.” We all have bad days and good days. And I believe that as a man, you suck that sh-t up. Usually, if you’re a man, you have a lot of people relying on you to deliver: your wife, your kids, possibly other family members. If you run a business, every one of your employees. Yeah, there’s no time for men’s mental health. You’re a f-cking man. Get up, put your f-cking shoes on, and get out there and be a man. 

That is my take on being a man. You have a lot of people that count on you to get up and do what you do as a man. And I think that no matter how evolved we become with the man and women sh-t, and women who are executives and powerful people that do powerful things—it’s a fact, this isn’t me assuming, women are f-cking smarter than men, women mature earlier than men, lots of other things. But this is also a fact: Women want to feel safe and be protected, and a lot of women do want to be taken care of.

I'm the guy that, yeah, you do open the f-cking door for women. And no, you don't split the f-cking bill 50-50, ever, for any reason whatsoever. Or the bills. I'm that guy. And that isn't political. However I became this way – I don't know how I did, but that's who I am and how I am.

You’ve professed an admiration for Mexico, especially for its contribution to combat sports, and during the Sept. 14 card at the Sphere you are showing films highlighting Mexican history, ahead of Mexican Independence Day (Sept. 16). But Donald Trump has said some unkind things about Mexicans. 

Trump's stance on the border has been firm all along. If you look at it, Obama was one of the hardest presidents ever on the border. And Trump said, “You know, we're gonna build a wall.” I don't think he's ever said anything bad about Mexican people. 

What about the “rapists” comment?

He’s talking about the type of people that are coming over the border, which is bad, which is specific to any human being. Not just Mexicans. And Trump says it all the time. These aren't people coming over with their kids trying to find a better life. These are gang members. Very undesirable that are coming over the border. No matter what side of the fence you sit on, you can't disagree with that. 

And Trump being a racist? He’s the furthest thing from a racist. Does he always say the right things? Would I love to see him get off Twitter? Yeah. But as a human being, he's a good human. 

What’s the biggest leadership lesson you’ve learned from running the UFC? 

I love when I talk to people, they're like, “You know what? I want to start my own business and work for myself, because I want a lot of free time.” You're not the right guy if that's what you're thinking about. I'm in the office every day by 9 o’clock. I'm usually not the first one there, but I'm definitely the last one to leave. It was me and like two or three other people that are the last to leave that building every day. I could have stopped working in 2016. But I love what I do. I just told you, our ceiling is 8 billion people. To figure that out, to do the things we’re doing requires a lot of time, effort, and energy. And if you're asking your people to work that hard, you better be working that hard, too.

What’s your favorite thing to do to unwind? 

Two things. I play cards, gamble, whatever. And I have a place up in Maine where my cell phone barely works, and I have motorcycles and all kinds of toys. When I just want to get away from everything, I go up to my place in Maine.

What podcasts do you listen to? 

I don't listen to podcasts. I've done a million podcasts. I've never listened to a podcast in my life. I cannot be motivated by listening to somebody talk during a workout. I’m motivated by music.  

Is there a dream UFC venue or market where you want to hold an event?  

Africa. Haven't done an event in Africa yet. We have a champion now, world champion from South Africa, who just defended his title for the first time– 

Dricus du Plessis. South Africa would be first. And then we'll hit Nigeria, or one of those places after that. I’m also looking at building a performance institute (PI) in Africa too. I just built a Performance Institute in Mexico this year. And Africa's next. We’d see a fight in Africa in ‘25. PI, within three or four years. 

What do you think will be the ultimate takeaway from the Sphere event? 

This needs to come off seamlessly with all the different things that are going on production wise. And if we nail it, we pulled off one of the most unique, amazing live sporting events, not fights, live sporting events, of all time. 

What’s your worry level, on a scale of 1-10?

My worry is, you have one night to try to make this happen and pull it off. Here's the other thing that's a reality. Seems like a great idea. Maybe it's not. Maybe a live sporting event in the Sphere is not a great idea. We'll know that that night too. These are all things that we don't know. And I love the challenge of that.