--- title: Marlon James Talks Moon Witch Spider King + Fantasy Fiction description: James' new book, the second installment in the Dark Star trilogy, retells the events of the first book from another character's perspective. canonical: https://time.com/6148335/moon-witch-spider-king-marlon-james-interview/ author: Elijah Wolfson article:opinion: false article:content_tier: free article:published_time: 2022-02-15T18:19:34.000Z article:modified_time: 2026-05-11T04:49:01.555Z article:section: Entertainment og:title: How Marlon James Is Rewriting the Rules of Fantasy Fiction og:description: 'It's a very Western thing to believe that the simple fact that you're telling a story means you have the authority to tell it' og:url: https://time.com/6148335/moon-witch-spider-king-marlon-james-interview/ og:site_name: TIME og:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt98ef85fd4a1f99e2/698a227922fb8575c8e2d21c/marlon-james.jpg?branch=production&width=3840&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 og:image:width: 1200 og:image:height: 675 og:image:alt: Vanity Fair's 6th Annual New Establishment Summit - Day 1 og:type: article twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: How Marlon James Is Rewriting the Rules of Fantasy Fiction twitter:description: 'It's a very Western thing to believe that the simple fact that you're telling a story means you have the authority to tell it' twitter:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt98ef85fd4a1f99e2/698a227922fb8575c8e2d21c/marlon-james.jpg?branch=production&width=3840&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 ---  # How Marlon James Is Rewriting the Rules of Fantasy Fiction > Sponsored content. 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Terms and conditions apply. * Savings buckets are a feature of Ally Bank's Savings Account. * No ATM fees from Ally Bank at Allpoint and Moneypass ATMs plus we reimburse for fees charged by other ATM owners nationwide up to $10 per statement cycle. * Early direct deposit offers eligible direct deposits up to two days sooner. * Spending buckets are a feature of Ally Bank's Spending Account.  by [Elijah Wolfson](https://time.com/author/elijah-wolfson/)  ## Elijah Wolfson Feb 15, 2022 6:19 PM UTC  Author Marlon James speaks onstage at Vanity Fair's New Establishment Summit on Oct. 22, 2019 in Beverly Hills, Calif. Author Marlon James speaks onstage at Vanity Fair's New Establishment Summit on Oct. 22, 2019 in Beverly Hills, Calif.Matt Winkelmeyer—Getty Images for Vanity Fair  by [Elijah Wolfson](https://time.com/author/elijah-wolfson/)  ## Elijah Wolfson Feb 15, 2022 6:19 PM UTC After winning the [2015 Booker Prize](https://time.com/4072147/2015-man-booker-prize/) for _A Brief History of Seven Killings,_ his decades-spanning, dazzlingly inventive novel centered around a real-life assassination attempt on Bob Marley, author Marlon James embarked on a project of an even more epic scale: the _Dark Star_ trilogy. James’ fantasy series is meant as a corrective to the genre’s oversaturation of European myth and mores. The first of those books, the 620-page quest narrative [_Black Leopard, Red Wolf_](https://time.com/collection/100-best-fantasy-books/5898529/black-leopard-red-wolf-marlon-james/)_,_ landed in 2019 to [wide critical acclaim](https://time.com/collection/100-most-influential-people-2019/5567700/marlon-james/)_._ James spent months of the pandemic working on the second book in the series, [_Moon Witch, Spider King_](https://time.com/6142623/best-books-february-2022/), from 10 a.m. to 6 p.m. every day. Out Feb. 15, _Moon Witch_ expands the universe James built in the first novel by retelling the central story—a quest to find and save the missing young heir to the throne of a powerful land—through the voice of a secondary character. _Black Leopard_ was told from the perspective of Tracker, a drifter with an uncanny ability to hunt down other living creatures. In that first book, Sogolon, the sequel’s titular moon witch, joins Tracker’s hunting party, though her motivations seem suspect at best. But in _Moon Witch,_ James unravels the same events from Sogolon’s perspective, and her journey widens the scope of political intrigue, mythos, and motivations in the _Dark Star_ universe—and forces readers to reckon with a fluid definition of truth. **_Read More:_**[_The 100 Best Fantasy Books of All Time_](https://time.com/collection/100-best-fantasy-books/) James spoke with TIME about his influences, from a prestige television drama to a fellow Booker-winning tome, his desire to bring identity fluidity to the fantasy genre, and how differing cultural notions of truth have impacted his storytelling. ### **TIME: In** **_Black Leopard_** **, Sogolon seems to be a villain—at the least, she isn’t relatable—while Tracker, though flawed, is the character with whom readers most likely sympathized. In** **_Moon Witch_** **, the two switch roles. That brings up a question the books themselves raise: What is the relationship between storytelling and truth-telling?** **James:** If we were talking about truth, we would have to go back to oral storytelling, and that’s how far I went back with my research; there are things your eyes will skip that your ears won’t. A lot of these old stories, particularly African stories, didn’t come with a moral center. It’s a very Western thing to believe that the simple fact that you’re telling a story means you have the authority to tell it. In Jamaican storytelling, there’s a thing that the storyteller says at the end of the story, which I don’t think has a direct translation in English: “Jack Mandora mi nu choose none.” It’s basically meant as a verbal agreement that no blame for inaccuracy should be attributed to either the listener or storyteller. The idea is that just because you told a story, it doesn’t have a stamp of authenticity. I will say that I couldn’t write _Moon Witch_ if I didn’t believe Sogolon. At the same time, I couldn’t write _Black Leopard_ if I didn’t believe Tracker. ### **I don’t know if I’ve experienced that rejection of the notion of an objective, quantifiable truth in the same way with any other sort of serial fiction telling.** _Rashomon_, which was three movies about one event, was a model for me. It’s a movie I’ve seen a million times. And—it’s funny, because I have yet to watch the show—the idea of the trilogy moving in a nonlinear and more associative instead of sequential logic came from somebody telling me about the [TV show ](https://time.com/3486635/the-affair-showtime-cheating-game-of-thrones/)[_The Affair_](https://time.com/3486635/the-affair-showtime-cheating-game-of-thrones/). I love the idea of two, three people telling supposedly the same story, but they don’t add up at all. Their views on people and on each other are different, and the relationships are different. ### **Besides** **_Rashomon_** **, any essential texts that you draw from?** When I was writing this, two books were on my desk the whole time: _Wolf Hall_ by [Hillary Mantel](https://time.com/5797396/hilary-mantel-the-mirror-and-the-light/), and _Beloved_ by [Toni Morrison](https://time.com/5630489/toni-morrison-dies/). My character navigates through a royal court that she doesn’t belong to, and there’s the threat of violence at every turn amid all this pomp, ceremony and finery—her biggest struggle is just to stay alive. A lot of that is the influence of _Wolf Hall_. And then _Beloved_, because I’m constantly rereading Morrison, one thing she does so well is write about women among women. I’m very interested in those relationships. Sogolon spends quite a big chunk of his book in the presence of daughters, relatives, queens, would-be queens, princesses, and would-be princesses.  ### **The protagonists of both books are shape-shifters, and they are only two among a range of different types of shape-shifting characters you’ve written. I’m curious why you chose to populate your world with individuals of this sort?** The simple answer is that shape-shifters are flippin’ cool. I’ve always loved shape-shifters in comics. Of the holy trinity of monsters—Dracula, Frankenstein, and Wolfman—I was always for the Wolfman. But also, there’s a connection between the idea of shape-shifting and code-switching. When I first used to come to New York, I would leave the Bronx in my normal clothes, and go to the Barnes & Noble in Union Square and change into my fabulous gay clothes—and then rush back to Barnes & Noble before 10 p.m., like Cinderella, to put on my normal clothes again and head back to the Bronx. Shape-shifters appear in nearly every folklore, and the “transformer” has always been something fascinating to me—if for no other reason than there are times I kind of wish I was somebody else. That said, I did want to resist the tropes we have with these characters, where when they change into an animal, they’re wild and brutal. None of them are in this book. That would just be me falling into another Western trap—it’s not Id and Superego. It’s almost looking at shape-shifting as another way of being non-binary. ### **I really like maps and lineages and that encyclopedic aspect of speculative fiction.** **_Moon Witch, Spider King_** **has really unique maps that show the world in even more detail than in** **_Black Leopard_** **. How do those elements play into your writing process?** I was an illustrator in another life. Actually, I once sent an art portfolio to TIME. Needless to say, they sent me a very nice decline letter. This was like 1999\. I really hope it’s still not there. Eudora Welty said setting is a definer and confiner. And both can really energize the work. If I know that this character has to get to the North, but the distance between North and South is half a year, then I have to make the book show that it’s a half-year trip—and that means certain things don’t happen, like there’s no way that a character is on the same horse the whole time. That can add to the drama and intrigue. You want to introduce the world, but you also want people to move. If all you’re doing is world-building, then the reader doesn’t stop being a tourist. ### **Why did you decide to write a fantasy epic?** It didn’t seem a big jump to me, because there are fantastical elements in all the books I write. Even _A Brief History of Seven Killings_, which is the closest I’ve come to social realism, the main narrator is a ghost. If I’m writing a fantasy novel, the characters have to feel like they live in a historical novel, because it’s not fantastical to them. It’s fantastical to me, but it’s not fantastical to Sogolon. And because I write in first person, it’s even more urgent that a character has to feel so connected to their surroundings that they take it for granted. ### **Is that an active choice, to write in first person? Or do you feel like you can only write in first person?** Damn if I know. I’m not as confident in third person as I am in first. But I’m also interested in voice and tone of voice as a concept. That doesn’t mean you can’t have third-person with a fantastic voice, but for me, novel writing comes down to a kind of imaginative journalism, and I am very much interested in character testimony. I feel like I’m just a record keeper when I write these books. I’m always getting surprised by what these characters do and say, because I don’t feel like I’m in control of them. ### **What does the “Dark Star” in the** **_Dark Star_** **trilogy refer to?** You’re gonna have to read the third book to find out. The third one is called _White Wing, Dark Star_. _This interview has been condensed and edited for clarity._ ```json [{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","@id":"https://time.com/6148335/moon-witch-spider-king-marlon-james-interview/","mainEntityOfPage":{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https://time.com/6148335/moon-witch-spider-king-marlon-james-interview/"},"headline":"How Marlon James Is Rewriting the Rules of Fantasy Fiction","datePublished":"2022-02-15T18:19:34.000Z","dateModified":"2026-05-11T04:49:01.555Z","description":"James' new book, the second installment in the Dark Star trilogy, retells the events of the first book from another character's perspective.","url":"https://time.com/6148335/moon-witch-spider-king-marlon-james-interview/","keywords":["Books","Exclusive","culturepod"],"thumbnailUrl":"https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt98ef85fd4a1f99e2/698a227922fb8575c8e2d21c/marlon-james.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=1200:675&height=675","author":[{"@type":"Person","name":"Elijah Wolfson","jobTitle":"","url":"https://time.com/author/elijah-wolfson/"}],"articleSection":"Entertainment","image":[{"@type":"ImageObject","url":"https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt98ef85fd4a1f99e2/698a227922fb8575c8e2d21c/marlon-james.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=1200:675&height=675","width":1200,"height":675,"headline":"Vanity Fair's 6th Annual New Establishment Summit - Day 1","caption":"Marlon James at Vanity Fair's 6th Annual New Establishment Summit","creditText":"Matt Winkelmeyer—Getty Images for Vanity Fair","representativeOfPage":true}],"publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"Time","url":"https://time.com/","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","url":"https://time.com/images/logo.png","width":528,"height":156},"foundingDate":"March 3, 1923","sameAs":["https://www.facebook.com/time","https://www.instagram.com/time/?hl=en","https://twitter.com/time","https://www.pinterest.com/timemagazine"]}},{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"BreadcrumbList","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"item":{"@id":"/section/entertainment/","name":"Entertainment"}},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"item":{"@id":"/tag/books/","name":"Books"}},{"@type":"ListItem","position":3,"item":{"@id":"https://time.com/6148335/moon-witch-spider-king-marlon-james-interview/","name":"How Marlon James Is Rewriting the Rules of Fantasy Fiction"}}]}] ```