--- title: How Jane Goodall's Storytelling Genius Changes Minds description: Dr. Jane Goodall, the legendary naturalist, and primatologist, has spent decades persuading us to change the way we treat animals and the planet canonical: https://time.com/6104703/the-storytelling-genius-of-jane-goodall-and-why-intellectual-arguments-dont-change-behavior/ author: Susanna Schrobsdorff article:opinion: true article:content_tier: free article:published_time: 2021-10-07T01:22:47.000Z article:modified_time: 2026-08-04T07:44:31.975Z article:section: Ideas og:title: How Jane Goodall's Storytelling Genius Changes Minds og:description: Dr. Jane Goodall, the legendary naturalist, and primatologist, has spent decades persuading us to change the way we treat animals and the planet og:url: https://time.com/6104703/the-storytelling-genius-of-jane-goodall-and-why-intellectual-arguments-dont-change-behavior/ og:site_name: TIME og:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt41f409b5ff451751/698948cd457a52b4b5d60eb8/n4a8953.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 og:image:width: 2027 og:image:height: 1140 og:image:alt: _N4A8953 og:type: article twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: How Jane Goodall's Storytelling Genius Changes Minds twitter:description: Dr. Jane Goodall, the legendary naturalist, and primatologist, has spent decades persuading us to change the way we treat animals and the planet twitter:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt41f409b5ff451751/698948cd457a52b4b5d60eb8/n4a8953.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 ---  # The Storytelling Genius of Jane Goodall and Why Intellectual Arguments Don't Change Behavior > Sponsored content. 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It explains how TIME's journalism is made, from the first pitch through the editorial decisions behind a finished story or cover. #### How can I read about how TIME chooses its covers? Inside TIME is the newsletter where TIME's Editor-in-Chief explains cover selection and the editorial reasoning behind major stories. It is free at time.com/newsletters. #### Who is the editor of TIME? Sam Jacobs is TIME's Editor-in-Chief. He writes Inside TIME, a twice-weekly newsletter about the newsroom's reporting and editorial decisions. #### Is Inside TIME free? Yes. Inside TIME is a free newsletter, available at time.com/newsletters. A paid TIME subscription is separate and available at time.com/subscribe-agent. ## Video: The Enduring Hope of Jane Goodall [Watch (HLS stream): The Enduring Hope of Jane Goodall](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/rLmnP5U4.m3u8) (2:44)  _Published 2021-09-30. Goodall says she understands the bleak projections from climate scientists and the economic and political structures that hinder change. But she argues that hope, and her mission to spread it, are nothing short of necessary for the survival of humanity._  by [Susanna Schrobsdorff](https://time.com/author/susanna-schrobsdorff/)  ## Susanna Schrobsdorff Oct 7, 2021 1:22 AM UTC  Primatologist Jane Goodall at the TIME 100 Summit in New York on April 23, 2019. Primatologist Jane Goodall at the TIME 100 Summit in New York on April 23, 2019. Krisanne Johnson for TIME  by [Susanna Schrobsdorff](https://time.com/author/susanna-schrobsdorff/)  ## Susanna Schrobsdorff Oct 7, 2021 1:22 AM UTC _A version of this article also appeared in the_ [_It’s Not Just You_](https://time.com/tag/its-not-just-you/) _newsletter._ [_Sign up here_](http://notjustyou.club/) _to get a new edition every weekend._ --- > “” --- **Facts never did change hearts.** But until the era of alternative Facebook-style facts, it was a bit easier to pretend that we humans were logical creatures. Our inability to accept inconvenient truths is not news to [Dr. Jane Goodall](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ada18c0fdae30b768b97d094c82f3dd3232270c39c030012960889d8e56b950663c5a746bddc91b371982cd57cd337e472da7ae1bc1fd58e00), the legendary naturalist. She has spent decades persuading us to change the way we treat animals and the planet, and she does it by talking about her experiences, not with terrifying U.N. climate reports. “If one wants to change attitudes, you have to reach the heart. You can reach the heart by telling stories, not by arguing with people’s intellects,” she says on her new podcast, or as she calls it, her “[Hopecast](https://janegoodall.ca/the-hopecast-jane-goodalls-podcast/) ,” and in this week’s edition of [TIME](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ada18c0fdae30b768b97d094c82f3dd3232270c39c030012960889d8e56b950663c5a746bddc91b371982cd57cd337e472da7ae1bc1fd58e00). The science backs up her approach. A [recent study](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ad6ecfb49230929565f242a678a03298d014e40dc2d7b30b2f32097fb67080c341d2f9fa68ff5c3bc720c6490a3067545129d3d37b2ea4b18a) out of Princeton University using brain imaging showed how while hearing a story our brain waves [start to synchronize](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ad6ecfb49230929565f242a678a03298d014e40dc2d7b30b2f32097fb67080c341d2f9fa68ff5c3bc720c6490a3067545129d3d37b2ea4b18a) with those of the storyteller. And the better[ the listener understood,](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ad5acc857dde1e25d1057d6d194e0d671773c61c9c9d13b697f41c05cc9be55805f878e2a02c5b1b84ab0066e0461024ea1a39873b2c31ea41) the more closely the brain wave patterns mirrored those of the storyteller. That narrative connection allows us to better see a [situation from ](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55add61558bdf10d5b548b3badd7441cea1aafb1aa336346028baa26d28dcd31cc7c32d87624b8f7bd91039917f869b793abe39c6740a54a700e)another’s viewpoint, and stories with an emotional bent engage the affective empathy network of the brain. And that ability to see beyond one’s self, is the key to delivering a message that asks us to change our behavior. Research has also shown that cultivating empathy has been effective in the [campaign to get](https://today.duke.edu/2020/12/convince-vaccine-skeptics-use-empathy-information-and-re-start-experts-say) more Americans to get the COVID-19 vaccine, versus throwing facts over the transom. Goodall is a master storyteller, [people often cry](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ad9d4154a4e9690119ff8844e83f4ab8e9a45b11d5d1501f08b1130e2995b7c2924efcd258edda48bd48e17e8be0a86bb5975c64899cf8cc93) in her presence without knowing why, and it’s part of the reason she’s such an effective ambassador for the Earth. She doesn’t just [tell her audiences,](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55add18822e6073e775c9faa411fb40c3447da4e1e473797e1cf15ddf032b2c989aa2ae96ac47f9de5ef91644a289ac5950d216daea7aa02b750) “we can regenerate nature in a place where we’ve destroyed it.” she talks about the beavers whose return to the U.K. has mitigated flooding that was destroying homes and lives. Or she describes beautiful private moments when she found herself alone in nature and forgot she was human, she felt “part of the natural world.” And the point of all these stories, and her seven-day-a-week speaking schedule at age 87, is to keep audiences from being so overwhelmed by the torrent of bad news that they stop trying. “We are living through such dark times, I mean everywhere you look, the climate the politics, it’s pretty grim,” she tells [listeners](https://janegoodall.ca/the-hopecast-jane-goodalls-podcast/). “And if people lose hope then we may as well give up.” Goodall believes hope to be an essential human “evolutionary force,” asking what would have happened if stone age humans hadn’t believed that a tool he was carving could help him hunt dinner? He’d never start carving, she suggests. To that end, Goodall has gathered many of her most powerful stories in [_The Book of Hope: A Survival Guide for Trying Times_](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55adc6a4d21275f0269f69470e3bf07df971f67e723ed12487260537a4c513e6693a55cd109b6ebe7a345425eefb70936dc344229c30397a948c)_,_ which she co-authored with Douglas Abrams and Gail Hudson. In the book and on her podcast, she talks about her groundbreaking work with chimpanzees in Africa, but also her childhood in Britain during World War II and how it seemed dire then too. Everything was rationed, bombs were falling on the country. “I learned to take nothing for granted,” she says. She credits Winston Churchill for giving people the will to keep going back then. “He made mistakes, but his speeches that gave us hope,” she says. “He was basically saying what I’m always saying. We can do it. We must believe that we can do it.”  [Read (and watch)](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ad04686750f88e6fe3204413d4c6fc6ba7975602ff759d51779c0ac8d7a8505e6d28547f5c591965d8416395aa412ba5139ca1ff7031c765c9) TIME’s profile of Jane Goodall. And check out the [Hopecast](https://janegoodall.ca/the-hopecast-jane-goodalls-podcast/) podcast where you can leave a voice message or question for Dr. Goodall. [_Subscribe here to get an essay from Susanna Schrobsdorff every Saturday._](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ad02139cf6b1ac6414ee20f16e6189e2386e3251c885f05bcb1d1870d25a7e141d75ee483579690e2e9400feaf64b44585f2c58e25c30b25ff) --- ## **GALLERY** _An image from the week that was._ I took a gloriously long walk with a friend in the Berkshires of upstate New York. We got a peek at [Steepletop](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ad8f96230d8aa718b3cf660c1de8c9663f77152ccf2b34fb9fe8d72962948a993690f03a0f1d668e46dabdce35cdf7aab5251fb14a581237ee) , the former home of Pulitzer prize-winning poet Edna St. Vincent Millay (from the outside, as it wasn’t open to the public). The campus of [Millay Arts](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ad23de067df676236907dd2ac2fe16e4f6192521108c60b110bcb0bf32f00377f43151a158169391467baf712702d855c2a50baadc07471558), one of the world’s longest-running artist residencies is nearby and it looks like a divine spot for making art. --- > “” --- --- ## **THE ROUND-UP** [ “The Liking Gap” and Why You Make Better Impressions Than You Think.](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ad7c55d01c9cb6e2742b25a629b30a61315b870dfa864a6489646f67c502e417a17c0cedcf341af3b4b1f9eb95a26da50efd82af0114d9b174) New research suggests we underestimate our social performance. Or, in the immortal words of [Sally Field](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55adf29746e77ae0b41706502dde751189fa94e8e938f7604faacd61d28edde9df468e9ff7664c90dd576919a1aa6b28f8bf235f64eb24ede66d), “You like me!” [ Should You Resume In-Person Therapy?](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55adb3d85438c6817cf08dbc617568510d76fc1d04bae1900a280db953787b3eb11d32fdf3d78fadb7441fc09d4d90c2277428685ad844f840c9) Virtual counseling has become the norm during the pandemic. Here’s how to decide whether it’s still working for you. [ How to make ](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ad5da8291aef05fe73329c326741249bc476ec0e24936f3622fd1437445f3cf093a0950cbf54c6334b6e68d0f24caa6d2f3ffb40218b98a29a)one of poet [Maya Angelou](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ad0378d66ca0c66f03d9e3bb030cdf49768c9309d70b439095e32b04cc98f60db845375cd32c2391b7cac72bffccbe4757ffd93da310ac3c46)’s beloved family recipes, [“Momma’s caramel cake](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ad5da8291aef05fe73329c326741249bc476ec0e24936f3622fd1437445f3cf093a0950cbf54c6334b6e68d0f24caa6d2f3ffb40218b98a29a) .” Perfect for fall. “Writing and cookery are just two different means of communication,”[ she wrote](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ad0378d66ca0c66f03d9e3bb030cdf49768c9309d70b439095e32b04cc98f60db845375cd32c2391b7cac72bffccbe4757ffd93da310ac3c46) after publishing one of her two cookbooks. [ “How to Build a Happy Life:”](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ad5896f73e5b4ebc7546866c11ec95df04dba6c83b6acb946d724544d277a89e38a95647e0f73eee08c3b2d0470b87102e810b225cd933d527) a new podcast hosted by Harvard economist and thinker the Atlantic’s Arthur Brooks, advises us on understanding emotions and developing practical skills to make the journey to happiness a little bit easier. In the good news department: [5 Midwestern governors agree ](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ad448180fac1023c716e13d375c585ea2fb1e82e64dc6e948e60dd64a67ef1ff56fa50e12c9b51505b2aa6cd5b07fa8f4dfc625f1a5b5876ce)to create a network to charge electric vehicles. First, multiple politicians agreed! Second, car country is embracing EVs. --- ### **COMFORT CREATURE** Meet Millie, who, like so many other hipsters, abandoned Brooklyn for the countryside during the pandemic. Submitted by Pam and Jim who keep her in treats. --- _Write to me at:_ [_Susanna.notjustyou@gmail.com_](mailto:Susanna@time.com)_, or via Instagram:_[_@SusannaSchrobs._](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ad2395be57021b0ab51d8eb6c39bc32bf52db55a490f7eaddb6ef68a7b0fe4761be4007decc4787d3dae351c075415c8e599eada4d997c6e8b)[_And, subscribe here to get an essay from Susanna every weekend._](https://click.newsletters.time.com/?qs=6e0022dc3b7f55ad02139cf6b1ac6414ee20f16e6189e2386e3251c885f05bcb1d1870d25a7e141d75ee483579690e2e9400feaf64b44585f2c58e25c30b25ff) ## Transcript Before, it was like nature  spread across the world. Because it sort of did back in the 60s. And then after realizing what was  going on it was never quite the same because I've got to try and save  it, I've got to try and save it. Nature is treated as though it's a commodity. And we brought climate change on ourselves,  loss of biodiversity on ourselves, and the pandemic on ourselves. It's all our fault from our disrespect of nature and animals. When I finally got to Cambridge and they told me you can't talk about chimps having  personalities, minds or emotions because those are unique to us, I knew that was rubbish. I didn't deliberately plan it, but it's just  who I am, not to confront the professors, not to say oh you're wrong, but just to quietly go on  doing what I knew was right. And it's the same if I'm trying  to change somebody who disagrees, not to be holier than thou and  attack and say you're doing wrong and you've got to do right, but rather you've got to reach the heart, and I do that through story telling. Kids are absolutely fascinated  by the time I spent with chimps, so that's the nice doorway in. Because once they know the problems  and they're empowered to take action they're so enthusiastic. And I mean, it's their world and they  now know enough starting quiet young. They know that we're destroying the  world now because it's everywhere. You can't miss it. First we've got to alleviate crippling  poverty because when you're poor you can't protect the environment  if it's your only way of survival. But once you're not in the category then we  can all make ethical choices in what we buy. The positive is there's  so much awareness and talk. There's so much more pressure from the public. I'm about to leave the world and  leave it behind me with all the mess whereas young people have to grow up into it. That's why they need ever bit of help they can. And if, you know, if they  succumb to the doom and gloom, which many have, then they lose hope. If you lose hope that's the end. Because if you don't hope that there's a way out, if you don't hope that your  actions can make a difference, then you sink into apathy and do nothing. 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