TIME Sports

Kobe Bryant Should Start Shooting Less

David Berri is a professor of economics at Southern Utah University.

Kobe Bryant only played in six games last season. This year, though, he gives the appearance of being back. After 14 games he is currently leading the NBA in points per game.

Unfortunately, his scoring totals might be misleading. Currently Kobe is also leading the NBA in field goal attempts and missed field goals per game. For the season he is launching 24.0 shots from the field per game, and missing nearly 15 of these. Next in the field goal attempts rankings is Carmelo Anthony, and he is taking and missing about five fewer shots per game.

All this chucking might lead some to ask: “Is Kobe shooting too much?” Eric Freeman — of Yahoo Sports — did ask this question. And Freeman concluded that “This issue doesn’t have an obvious answer — yes, Kobe shoots a lot, but the Lakers have so few efficient offensive players that it’s hard to point to one guy as sinking their chances.”

Perhaps the answer isn’t “obvious” to everyone. But if we look at the data, it appears an “obvious” answer does emerge.

Let’s begin with the Lakers roster in 2014-15. Kobe has shot at least twice as much as any of his teammates this season. And the leading scorer after Kobe is Jordan Hill, who only averages 13.9 points per game. So this might suggest that Lakers have few options.

However, when we turn to shooting efficiency, we see the majority of the players on the Lakers are more efficient than Kobe. Efficiency can be measured by looking at True Shooting Percentage (a measure that takes into account efficiency from the field and the line). Currently, Kobe has a mark of 48.2%, which is well below average (an average shooting guard in the NBA has a mark of 53.6%). There are also currently eight players on the Lakers who have bested Kobe’s mark.

So what would happen if Kobe shot less? Kobe — with a career True Shooting Percentage of 55.4% — has never shot this poorly in his career. His career average is still topped by five other players on the Lakers this year. But Kobe’s career mark is above average for an NBA shooting guard. And if he could return to his career average, the number of shots he is taking wouldn’t be such an issue.

But since Kobe is older and coming off a major injury, it is possible that the Kobe we see today is the Kobe we are going to see going forward. If that is the case, should someone else on this team be shooting more? Some might argue that if Kobe’s shots were taken by one of his teammates, the shooting efficiency of that teammate might decline considerably. For example, Ed Davis has a True Shooting Percentage of 60.4% while averaging 5.9 shots per game. Davis has never averaged more than six shots per game in his career. So if Davis was suddenly asked to take five more shots per game — given his limited offensive skills — it is possible he won’t be able to keep hitting shots at the same efficiency level we currently observe.

But a reduction in Kobe’s shot attempts does not mean that one individual player has to shoot substantially more. Again, there are several teammates who shoot more efficiently than Kobe. What if the Lakers asked Kobe to take five fewer shots per game and these shots were re-allocated so that no teammate had to take more than one additional shot per contest?

Although having one player take five more shots per game might change their shooting efficiency (or it might not), having a player take just one more shot per game can’t really impact their overall shooting efficiency. And since there are eight players who shoot more efficiently than Kobe, such a re-allocation would mean….

  • the Lakers would have fewer shots from Kobe (who is currently very inefficient)
  • and more shots from others who are above average with respect to efficiency.

And all that means the Lakers would score more points on their current shot attempts and therefore would win more games.

But there would be a downside. If Kobe took five fewer shots from the field — and his shooting efficiency didn’t change — his points per game would decline from 26.7 points per game to about 22.5 points per game. If that happened, Kobe would no longer be in the top five in scoring in the league.

Past studies have shown that scoring drives perceptions of performance in the NBA. Scoring is the primary determinant of free agent salaries, the voting for post-season awards, and where a player is selected in the NBA draft. Simply put, the more a player scores the better people tend to think a player is playing.

And that means if Kobe takes fewer shots, people will tend to think he is not as good. Yes, given Kobe’s current shooting efficiency they should have already reached this conclusion. But shooting efficiency doesn’t have that big of an impact on the evaluation of NBA performance.

Given the nature of player evaluation, expect Kobe — even if it hurts the Lakers chance to win games — to keep firing away. And also expect people who still see Kobe as an elite scorer to keep thinking that it isn’t obvious that a player who misses this many shots should shoot less.

TIME Ideas hosts the world's leading voices, providing commentary and expertise on the most compelling events in news, society, and culture. We welcome outside contributions. To submit a piece, email ideas@time.com.

TIME Sports

A Plea to Parents of Young Athletes: Simmer Down

Ted Spiker (@ProfSpiker), the interim chair of the department of journalism at the University of Florida, is the author of DOWN SIZE: 12 Truths for Turning Pants-Splitting Frustration into Pants-Fitting Success.

Eight things we can do to improve the youth-sports environment

Like most parents who watch their kids play sports, I keep an in-brain highlight reel of my favorite moments involving my two boys. Some of them involve skill, but many of them center around effort or teamwork. More and more, though, I also have witnessed incidents that make me wonder why there’s more gamesmanship and less sportsmanship. Just last weekend, I saw the following from other squads: a player-to-ref middle finger, four flags in one game for excessive taunting, and a frustrated fling of a stick into the stands.

Any of us who have been involved in youth sports have our own stories of do-it-the-wrong-way people. In my decade or so of coaching and spectating the half-dozen different sports my boys have played, I’ve seen kids be punks. Coaches be punks. Parents be punks.

I’ve been a punk.

The sad fact is that unless we can slowly change the frantic and entitled culture that’s bubbling on some of our sidelines (I once saw a parent zooming his video camera to focus on a college scout’s notes), we’re going to allow what should be a healthy and educational environment to become a constantly toxic one.

How can we fix it? Ultimately, I think it involves parents having the discipline to keep in perspective what’s really at stake. Not a game, not a scholarship. What we do risk losing is this: A positive experience for our kids. Their memories of what sports taught them and the friendships they built. Our own relationships with our children.

“Being a parent is a performance. Did your presence make your kids two hours better? How? What did you do to make sure that happened? That’s the difference between being a parent and being a fan, yet most parents act more like fans than parents,” sports psychologist and former Division-I athlete Doug Newburg, Ph.D., told me. “What does it mean to care? That’s the issue. We believe that anger and passion and emotion are how we care. The reality is if we care, we focus on what matters. People get emotional because they ‘CARE’ when they should ‘care.’ Softly, without props, as Toni Morrison would say.”

It won’t be a quick or easy change, but if we each do our part, we can slowly bring our youth-sports culture back to where it should be — a place for kids to learn, grow, develop, and [gasp!] have fun.

Some ways that parents can game-plan:

Cheer for the play that helps the play. It’s natural to celebrate the goal, the touchdown, the game-saving catch. Let’s make more effort to cheer for the player who makes the pass or block. Call out to the one who sets the pick. Send an “attaboy” or “attagirl” to the kid who does one tiny thing that—as part of a chain of events—helped make the big play happen. Most importantly, notice those things when other kids do them. If you want your child to understand that life is about collaborating with a team, reinforce it by spreading your praise up and down the roster.

Dial down the emotion. An expert I once interviewed about the subject said that many youth coaches make a mistake by having a rah-rah-get-riled-up persona during the game. They assume it helps get a team motivated to perform well. In actuality, he said, athletes (especially young ones) perform better in a less emotionally charged atmosphere. We parents can take the same advice — cheer and praise with enthusiasm, but with a tone of voice that exudes calmness. Translation: “Oh nice play, Jennifer, way to hustle” trumps “GET TO THE BALL, JENNIFER. GO! GO! GO! YOU GOT IT! MOOOOOOVE IT!” Or as my friend Bill, the father of two elite-level athletes, says, “Watch with compassion, not judgment.”

Ask yourself: What does your kid really want? While you may be eager to give your opinion on what strategy will work, our kids don’t want a constant yammering of tips and tricks from you. More likely, our kids prefer our role on the support staff: We’re chauffeurs, cheerleaders, peanut-butter-sandwich-makers, ice-pack-fetchers, bag-smell-taker-outers. Embrace that role, and use baking powder.

Be unsocial. Most of the parental sideline issues really are an issue about self-control — how we can take an emotional moment (“that was a slash!”) and cool down before reacting like a bloated buffoon. Some researchers would say that the key to doing that is taking ourselves out of a hot state (the time we act on impulse because our emotions are clouding judgment) and go to a cold state (where we act more logically). That’s difficult when games are essentially one prolonged hot state. If you’re prone to outbursts, watch the game away from all the other parents (especially opposing ones), since the pack mentality contributes to a pile-on-the-ref sideline.

Play with, not talk to. If you want to connect with your kid over sports and offer your wisdom about improvement, your contribution shouldn’t come anywhere near game time. Toss the ball, bike while she runs, anything. “Like a buddy, not a coach,” Bill says. “You may find out more about your kids as people and they’re more likely to work on their game if you’re not beating them down.”

Respect the hierarchy. I get that we all think we know better and have the strategy that will help the team. If you want to question the coach, offer advice constructively on non-game days and not in public. Then don’t take offense if the coach says thanks, but no thanks. Want a say in how things are done? Volunteer. Or login to your fantasy football roster.

If he runs his mouth, sit him down. There’s one exception to the above rule. If kids act in a way that demeans or threatens a coach, player, opponent, ref, or fans, and the coach won’t wield punishment, then we have the right — and responsibility — to do so. As a parent once told me, “Either you’re coaching that type of behavior, or you’re allowing it to happen.”

Offer questions, not analysis. After a game, resist the urge to explain ways your child could improve. Just say, “How was the game?” “Did you have fun?” “How’d it go?” Realize this first: If your kids want a break-down analysis of how they played, they’ll ask you for it. Realize this second: They won’t ask you for it.

Now, I believe the motive in most instances of parental craziness is well-meaning. We all want our kids to succeed, to perform well, to experience the joy that we suspect our kids want to feel when they win. Nobody questions the notion that you will and should feel passion about what you’re watching—pride, disappointment, anger about the ref missing an elbow to the face, the whole range that comes from watching our kids compete. But projecting those emotions will contribute to kids losing enjoyment of the game — and ultimately stop playing the game.

Or maybe we could simply do this, as was suggested by a fellow parent at a parent/athlete meeting I recently attended: Maybe we could just ask our own kids how they want us to act. Do they want us to yell urgently for them to step up and make a play? Do they want us to throw our hats when the ref makes a bad call? Do they want us to snipe among ourselves when the coach subbed at the wrong time? Do they want us to look so petty that we’re getting riled up for a reason that really doesn’t matter in the grand scheme?

I doubt it.

What do they want out of playing sports? Do they want to go hard, compete, get better, celebrate good plays with their friends, and not have to hear their parents squawking before, during, or after the game? Do they want us to remember the definition of play?

I’m sure my kids would say yes.

Ted Spiker (@ProfSpiker), the interim chair of journalism at the University of Florida, is the author of DOWN SIZE: 12 Truths for Turning Pants-Splitting Frustration into Pants-Fitting Success. He scored a total of 2 points during his entire eighth-grade basketball season.

TIME Ideas hosts the world's leading voices, providing commentary and expertise on the most compelling events in news, society, and culture. We welcome outside contributions. To submit a piece, email ideas@time.com.

TIME viral

Watch: George H.W. Bush and Barbara Bush Caught on Kiss Cam

No one can escape from the Kiss Cam

Former President George H.W. Bush and his wife, Barbara Bush, were watching the Houston Texans play the Cincinnati Bengals when they were called out on the Kiss Cam. No one—not even a former president—can escape from the Kiss Cam, so America’s former first family knew that while they weren’t on the football field, they still had to play ball.

Once they realized they were on camera, the Bushes fulfilled their responsibility and shared a kiss.

It’s not the first time a former president has been featured on that Kiss Cam. Last year, George W. Bush and his wife, Laura, appeared on it as well.

MORE:

George H. W. Bush: What I’m Thankful For

All The President’s Socks: The Top 13 Pairs Worn by George H.W. Bush

TIME Sports

Odell Beckham’s Insane Catch Gets the Full Meme Treatment

Odell Beckham #13 of the New York Giants scores a touchdown in the second quarter against the Dallas Cowboys at MetLife Stadium on Nov. 23, 2014 in East Rutherford, N.J.
Odell Beckham #13 of the New York Giants scores a touchdown in the second quarter against the Dallas Cowboys at MetLife Stadium on Nov. 23, 2014 in East Rutherford, N.J. Al Bello—Getty Images

Even Kim Kardashian gets in on the action

On Sunday, the New York Giants’ rookie wide receiver Odell Beckham made an absolutely ridiculous one-armed catch during a game against the Dallas Cowboys.

By making good on that one incredibly unlikely catch, Beckham scored a touchdown, cemented his reputation as a go-to receiver, earned a spot in NFL highlight reels and, naturally, became an Internet meme.

The Internet has Photoshopped Beckham’s three-fingered catch by adding him to everything from the Sistine Chapel to Kim Kardashian’s instantly infamous Paper magazine cover to what could have been a game-changing play against an equally infamous Chicago Cubs’ fan.

 

Read next: Watch This Ridiculous 1-Handed Touchdown Catch

TIME Sports

Watch: Marshawn Lynch Gives One-Word Answers During Post-Game Interview

"Yeah...Yeah...Yeah."

After the Seattle Seahawks defeated the Arizona Cardinals (19-3) Sunday night, reporters crowded around Seahawks running back Lynch, posing several questions that he answered with a simple “Yeah.”

“How does your back feel, Marshawn?” asked one reporter. Lynch’s answer: “Yeah.”

“How are you feeling, Marshawn?” asked another. The reply: “Yeah.”

“Talk about the Cardinals defense.” Also: “Yeah.”

To be fair, Lewis did throw a few other answers into the mix. When a reporter asked if it was tough to rebound from his game on Thursday after feeling unwell, Lynch said, “Maybe.” He gave one two-word response when asked what he listened to on the way over: “No Juice.”

The especially brief replies come after Lynch was fined $100,000 for refusing to speak with reporters after a losing game. His entire interview can be watched on NFL.com, or see the transcript below with his full responses:

MONEY Leisure

Great Ways to Spend Black Friday Not at the Mall

One of the contraptions. The 16th Annual Friday After Thanksgiving Chain Reaction Event held at MIT, featuring 34 teams and their Rube Goldberg machines.
One of the contraptions. The 16th Annual Friday After Thanksgiving Chain Reaction Event held at MIT, featuring 34 teams and their Rube Goldberg machines. Jonathan Wiggs—Boston Globe via Getty Images

Who says you must go shopping on Black Friday? Here's a roundup of suggestions for fun, worthwhile events that take place on the notoriously crazed shopping day—but don't involve shopping at all.

It’s understandable if you plan to steer clear of the mall on November 28, a.k.a. the day after Thanksgiving, a.k.a. Black Friday. A confusing, contradictory string of consumer polls suggests that “only” 11%, or perhaps as many as 28% of Americans will physically go shopping in stores on the day. Even if the true figure is at the low end of the spectrum, it’ll still mean millions and millions of people clogging shopping centers across the land. The National Retail Federation estimated that 141 individual consumers made shopping purchases last year during the Thanksgiving weekend. The majority of the purchases were made in person (not online), and as expected, Black Friday was the weekend’s biggest day for sales.

The point is that there are literally millions and millions of reasons why you might want to consider not going to the mall on Friday. Add in the fact that deal-tracking experts argue that smart shoppers should probably skip Black Friday because, with the exception of a few amazing-but-limited doorbuster deals, stores don’t have their best prices this day, and we’re left with one overarching but illogical reason why people are compelled to shop on the day: They go not in spite of the crowds and the crazed, competitive atmosphere but because of it. In certain circles, Black Friday is considered the “Super Bowl” of shopping, or a “blood sport” of consumerism if you will, and there are shoppers out there who can’t pass up the action—even if it ruins Thanksgiving because Black Friday now starts on Thursday for most national retailers.

In any event, if you decide to not go shopping on Black Friday, congratulations. You pass the sanity test. But just because you sit Black Friday out in terms of shopping doesn’t mean you have to sit at home the whole day. Here are some suggestions for the day that don’t involve elbowing a desperate mom out of the way to get the last cheap TV or video game console in a store:

Parades and Holiday Lights
Portland (OR), Seattle, Estes Park at Colorado’s Rocky Mountain National Park, and San Antonio are among the many spots that traditionally host parades on the day after Thanksgiving. The latter is a nighttime floating parade that spectators view from San Antonio’s River Walk (tickets are necessary), and the elaborate floats feature tens of thousands of lights. Black Friday is also the day that the flip is switched on for the season for holiday light displays in places such as Chicago’s Lincoln Park Zoo.

Coat Exchanges
In honor of Buy Nothing Day, an anti-consumerism event timed to coincide with Black Friday, charity organizers launched a coat exchange years ago on the day in Rhode Island. Nowadays, coats are gathered and given away all over the state on Black Friday, and similar coat exchange programs have popped up in Utah, Kentucky, and Indiana.

Museums (and Drinks!)
Museums around the country give visitors extra reason to absorb some culture and knowledge—both in short supply at the nation’s malls—with special events and discounts on Black Friday. For instance, Miami’s Frost Museum of Science has two-for-one admissions on November 28, while from 5 p.m. to 9 p.m. the Oakland Museum of California waives admission for kids and offers half-price entrance and drink specials in the beer garden for those of age. In Milwaukee, the Harley-Davidson Museum is hosting its third annual Black Friday Beerfest, with samples from dozens of craft brewers on hand.

F.A.T. Chain Reaction
Every year, an inventive, entertaining, and admittedly geeky event called the Friday After Thanksgiving (F.A.T.) Chain Reaction takes place in the Boston area at the MIT campus. Teams of kids come with elaborate Rube Goldberg/better mousetrap creations made with any materials of their choosing that, like dominos, set off a wild chain reaction of moving pieces that takes between 30 seconds and three minutes to complete. In the end, each team’s creation is linked together in a giant chain reaction to delight the crowd. Tickets are $5 for children ages 5 to 17, and $15 for adults at the door ($12.50 in advance).

Live Sports
We all know that the NFL is the dominant sport for Thanksgiving Day. The day after, however, has increasingly become a hot day for the other two major pro sports being played right now: A dozen NBA games take place on Black Friday 2014 (including a 1 p.m. tipoff of the Chicago Bulls versus the host Boston Celtics), and three of the 11 NHL games scheduled for Friday get underway during family-friendly afternoon times. Plenty of college football games kick off around the country on Friday, November 28, as well.

 

TIME Sports

Mystery Surrounds Intersex Woman Who Says She Was Michael Phelps’ Girlfriend

SWIM-PANPACS-AUS-USA
Micheal Phelps of the US reacts following the Men's 200 m Individual Medley heat at the Gold Coast Aquatic Centre, Gold Coast on August 24, 2014. Patrick Hamilton—AFP/Getty Images

Taylor Lianne Chandler is straddling the border between public figure and private enigma

The woman who claims to have been dating Michael Phelps at the time of his DUI arrest in September says she has the phone she used to text with him locked up in a safety deposit box.

Taylor Lianne Chandler, who wrote in a Facebook post on Nov. 13 that she was born intersex, told the Washington Post that she has no photographs of herself with Phelps but cites their text messages as proof of their relationship.

For those who doubt the validity of screenshots with the name “Michael” at the top of a stream of texts, she says, “I also have a 17,000-page forensic report showing everything — all the geo scans, the cellphone tower signals, the pings. And they’re coming from his phone.”

Phelps spent the month of October in rehab after his DUI arrest and has not yet spoken publicly about Chandler’s claims.

[The Washington Post]

 

TIME Sports

How Sports Makes a Clear Case for Immigration

2014 NBA Finals - Game Five
Tony Parker #9 and Tim Duncan #21, and Manu Ginobili #20 of the San Antonio Spurs celebrate after defeating the Miami Heat in Game Five of the 2014 NBA Finals at the AT&T Center on June 15, 2014 in San Antonio, Texas. Andy Lyons—Getty Images

David Berri is a professor of economics at Southern Utah University.

If you want to win, you have to look everywhere for talent

President Barack Obama is expected to announce executive actions that would shield 5 million undocumented immigrants from deportation Thursday, and it is clear that views on this subject differ.

At least, that’s true for non-economists. Economists–a group that generally doesn’t agree on much–seem to agree for the most part on the value of immigration. They argue that immigration–especially of skilled immigrants–is good for a nation. Not only does immigration increase the pace of innovation, it also helps improve the performance of the entire economy. So if you wish to see the economy of the United States improve, you should be in favor of immigration.

Despite this consensus, Harvard law professor Cass Sunstein has recently noted that people tend not to listen to economists on this subject. Sunstein offers some thoughts on why economists are ignored, but misses one possibility. Perhaps the problem isn’t the story. Perhaps the problem is with how the story is being told.

Those who teach sports and economics (such as myself) often argue that the study of sports often makes economics easier to understand. With that in mind, let’s think about sports and the economics of immigration.

As recently as 1980, almost all NBA players were born in the United States. Over the next three decades, though, the NBA increasingly broadened its search for talent. Today, about 20% of the league was born outside the United States.

Perhaps no team better exemplifies the global search for talent than the San Antonio Spurs. Last season the Spurs finished with the best record in the regular season. And in June, the Spurs won the NBA title.

There were 19 different players who logged regular season minutes for the Spurs in 2013-14. Of these, 9 were born outside the United States. Among this collection of international players were some of the most productive players the Spurs employed:

  • Marco Belinelli (born in Italy, 6.7 Wins Produced)
  • Manu Ginobili (born in Argentina, 5.9 Wins Produced)
  • Patrick Mills (born in Jamaica, 5.0 Wins Produced)
  • Tiago Splitter (born in Brazil, 4.2 Wins Produced)
  • Boris Diaw (born in France, 3.8 Wins Produced)
  • Tony Parker (born in France , 3.6 Wins Produced)
  • Corey Joseph (born in Canada, 2.8 Wins Produced)

These seven international players combined to produce about 32 wins for the Spurs, or more than half the games the team won in the regular season last year. Needless to say, without these players the Spurs would not have contended for a title.

This story goes beyond the NBA. A similar story can be told by the Detroit Tigers. The Tigers have won four consecutive division titles. And no team in Major League Baseball has won more regular season games since 2011. Three key players in this team’s success are Miguel Cabrera (American League Triple Crown winner in 2012), Victor Martinez (2nd in American League MVP race in 2014) and Anibal Sanchez (led American League in earned run averages in 2013). And all three were born in Venezuela.

Clearly immigration has worked for the Spurs and Tigers. And immigration doesn’t just make these two teams better. It also improves the product offered by their respective leagues. By expanding the population of talent a league draws upon, competitive balance in a sport can improve. In addition, without immigration, talents like Robinson Cano, Jose Abreu, Jose Altuve, Felix Hernandez, Johnny Cueto, Joakim Noah, Ricky Rubio, Serge Ibaka, Dirk Nowitzki and Kyrie Irving would be playing outside the United States. And if all this talent were employed elsewhere, it would be more difficult for the NBA and MLB to maintain their status as the preeminent league in their respective sports.

All of this teaches a simple and important lesson. If you want to be the best in the world, you have to employ the best in the world.

However you define “best,” it is clear that you can’t be the “best” without employing the “best” talent. If you restrict your talent search to the population born in the United States–less than 5% of the world population–your odds of employing the “best” talent seem fairly low.

So the world of sports teaches a clear lesson on immigration. The search for talent can’t be confined to the borders of a single nation. Firms in the United States compete in a global marketplace. The success of these firms, whether they are in or out of sports, depends on the talent these firms can employ. If you wish to employ the best talent, your talent search must be global. And that means your borders have to be open.

David Berri is a professor of economics at Southern Utah University. He is the lead author of The Wages of Wins and Stumbling on Wins and continues to serve on the editorial board of bothJournal of Sports Economics and the International Journal of Sport Finance.

TIME Ideas hosts the world's leading voices, providing commentary and expertise on the most compelling events in news, society, and culture. We welcome outside contributions. To submit a piece, email ideas@time.com.

TIME Sports

Watch Canadian Hockey Fans Help Finish the U.S. National Anthem After the Singer’s Mic Fails

This is sure to warm even the iciest hearts

At a Toronto Maple Leafs game Tuesday night, singer Michelle Madeira was partway through The Star-Spangled Banner when her mic cut out. She continued singing, but of course, the crowd couldn’t hear her. Without missing a beat, the entire crowd picked up where Madeira left off, completing the U.S. national anthem in unison.

Fans kept up the enthusiasm and sang O Canada right after.

See? Hockey fans aren’t just drunken and rowdy and prone to fighting. They’re also sometimes really awesome.

(h/t Daily Dot)

TIME Sports

These Athletes Lost Endorsement Deals After Scandals

Nike dropping Adrian Peterson is a reminder of other athletes who lost their endorsements following scandals

Adrian Peterson is officially done with football this season. The NFL made the decision on Tuesday to suspend him after he pled no contest to charges of reckless assault following accusations that he hit his son with a switch.

Nike dropped Peterson from its endorsement roster earlier this month. You could almost call that unprecedented; Nike stood by Kobe Bryant and Tiger Woods when they had scandals of their own in the past. That’s not to say Kobe and Tiger didn’t lose support from other popular brands like McDonald’s and Gatorade, however.

Here’s a look at other athletes who lost endorsement deals following scandals.

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