--- description: Watch Ellen Pao and Gretchen Carlson, leaders in the fight for workplace inclusion, discuss their experiences with sexual harassment. title: Watch Ellen Pao and Gretchen Carlson Discuss Sexual Harassment and Changing Office Culture image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/bltbbb16dfadd214a64/6988decb7cdbac36e2d5a204/influencers-tile-carlson-pao.jpg?branch=production&width=2400&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 --- Sep 21, 2017 # The Workplace Battleground by [TIME Staff](/author/time-staff/) ## TIME Staff Update your preferences in [Account Settings](/account/preferences/) Close  Ellen Pao and Gretchen Carlson sit down to discuss sexual harassment and the flight to be included at the office In 2012, before inequality in Silicon Valley became a household conversation, venture capitalist [Ellen Pao](http://time.com/author/ellen-pao/ "undefined") filed a lawsuit against her former firm, [Kleiner Perkins](http://time.com/3904431/ellen-pao-appeal-sexism-case/ "undefined"), claiming she’d been held back because of her gender and retaliated against for complaining. Pao lost her case in a landmark trial in 2015, but the protracted battle helped draw attention to an essential conversation about discrimination. In 2016, on the other side of the country and in a different industry, former Fox News anchor [Gretchen Carlson](http://time.com/4540095/gretchen-carlsons-next-fight/ "undefined") sued then-chairman [Roger Ailes](http://motto.time.com/4400914/fox-roger-ailes-gretchen-carlson-harassment/ "undefined") for sexual harassment and retaliation. Her case sparked a wave of similar claims from other women at the company, including [Megyn Kelly, Laurie Luhn and Andrea Tantaros](http://motto.time.com/4757734/timeline-sexual-harassment-allegations-fox-news/ "undefined"). Carlson’s contract with Fox had included an [arbitration clause](http://motto.time.com/4698538/gretchen-carlson-sexual-harassment-arbitration-clauses/ "undefined"), which would have required her to privately resolve any dispute with the company. Instead, she sued Ailes directly and ultimately [settled with the network](https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/09/fox-news-settles-with-gretchen-carlson-for-20-million "undefined"), which acted on Ailes’s behalf, for $20 million. Pao and Carlson opened doors for others to report mistreatment, and both women cemented themselves as leaders in the fight for inclusion in the workplace, even as they battled sexist criticism and skepticism of their claims. This fall, Pao publishes [_Reset: My Fight for Inclusion and Lasting Change_](https://www.amazon.com/Reset-Fight-Inclusion-Lasting-Change/dp/039959101X/?tag=timecom-20 "undefined")_,_ which reveals details about her experience at Kleiner Perkins, and Carlson will release [_Be Fierce: Stop Harassment and Take Your Power Back_](http://www.gretchencarlson.com/befierce "undefined")_,_ offering advice to victims. TIME brought the two women together for their first meeting, where they discuss responses — both the ugly and the inspiring — to their stories. They open up about their shared drive to advocate for change and the importance of supporting those who speak out against harassment and discrimination. “Unless you’ve been in a personal experience like you and I have, you don’t understand the fear of coming forward,” Carlson says to Pao. “You and I sort of jumped off the cliff.” —Lucy Feldman ```json [{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"Article","@id":"https://time.com/collections/the-influencers/4951470/ellen-pao-and-gretchen-carlson-2/","mainEntityOfPage":{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https://time.com/collections/the-influencers/4951470/ellen-pao-and-gretchen-carlson-2/"},"headline":"Watch Ellen Pao and Gretchen Carlson Discuss Sexual Harassment and Changing Office Culture","datePublished":"2017-09-21T14:18:10.000Z","dateModified":"2026-03-02T23:23:24.450Z","description":"Watch Ellen Pao and Gretchen Carlson, leaders in the fight for workplace inclusion, discuss their experiences with sexual harassment.","url":"https://time.com/collections/the-influencers/4951470/ellen-pao-and-gretchen-carlson-2/","keywords":[],"thumbnailUrl":"https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/bltbbb16dfadd214a64/6988decb7cdbac36e2d5a204/influencers-tile-carlson-pao.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=1200:675&height=675","author":[{"@type":"Person","name":"TIME Staff","jobTitle":null,"url":"https://time.com/author/time-staff/"}],"creator":"TIME Staff","articleSection":"World","image":[{"@type":"ImageObject","url":"https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/bltbbb16dfadd214a64/6988decb7cdbac36e2d5a204/influencers-tile-carlson-pao.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=1200:675&height=675","width":1200,"height":675}],"publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"Time","url":"https://time.com/","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","url":"https://time.com/images/logo.png","width":528,"height":156},"foundingDate":"March 3, 1923","sameAs":["https://www.facebook.com/time","https://www.instagram.com/time/?hl=en","https://twitter.com/time","https://www.pinterest.com/timemagazine"]}},{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"BreadcrumbList","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"item":{"@id":"/section/world/","name":"World"}},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"item":{"@id":"https://time.com/collections/the-influencers/4951470/ellen-pao-and-gretchen-carlson-2/","name":"Watch Ellen Pao and Gretchen Carlson Discuss Sexual Harassment and Changing Office Culture"}}]}] ```