--- title: Sally Yates: Ted Cruz Questions Her Trump Travel Ban Action description: Former acting Attorney General Sally Yates and Texas Sen. Ted Cruz butted heads over President Donald Trump's stalled travel ban canonical: https://time.com/4771960/sally-yates-ted-cruz-trump-travel-ban-watch/ author: Jennifer Calfas article:opinion: false article:content_tier: free article:published_time: 2017-05-09T12:58:03.000Z article:modified_time: 2026-10-08T09:01:31.547Z article:section: Politics og:title: Watch the Moment Sally Yates and Ted Cruz Got Into a Heated Debate og:description: She was fired for refusing to defend Trump's executive order og:url: https://time.com/4771960/sally-yates-ted-cruz-trump-travel-ban-watch/ og:site_name: TIME og:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blte8c6a7d8776dca24/6988cc8a2dce01c4e89ed66e/sally-yates1.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 og:image:width: 3000 og:image:height: 1688 og:image:alt: Senate Holds Hearing On Russian Interference In U.S. Election og:type: article twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: Watch the Moment Sally Yates and Ted Cruz Got Into a Heated Debate twitter:description: She was fired for refusing to defend Trump's executive order twitter:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blte8c6a7d8776dca24/6988cc8a2dce01c4e89ed66e/sally-yates1.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 ---  # Watch the Moment Sally Yates and Ted Cruz Clashed About Trump's Travel Ban > Sponsored content. 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Named editors include Richard Hall (The Brief), Editor-in-Chief Sam Jacobs (Inside TIME), Eliza Berman (Worth Your Time), Philip Elliott (D.C. Brief), Justin Worland (Future Proof) and Harry Booth (In the Loop). Health Matters is written by TIME's health desk. #### How do I sign up for a TIME newsletter? Go to time.com/newsletters, choose the newsletters you want and enter your email address. There is no cost and no subscription requirement. ### Sources * TIME Newsletters: [time.com/newsletters](/c/time-nl-network-2026q3/newsletters?i=2bfbd257-6437-445e-bf96-e9c3f2f97c2a&cr=time-nl-network-2026q3-v1) ## Video: Sally Yates and Ted Cruz Have Heated Exchange Over Travel Ban [Watch (HLS stream): Sally Yates and Ted Cruz Have Heated Exchange Over Travel Ban](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/mF2QLTEg.m3u8) (4:09)  _Published 2017-05-09. During a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, former acting Attorney General Sally Yates and Senator Ted Cruz have a heated exchange on President Trump's travel ban._ by [Jennifer Calfas](https://time.com/author/jennifer-calfas/) ## Jennifer Calfas May 9, 2017 12:58 PM UTC During a Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, former acting Attorney General Sally Yates and Senator Ted Cruz have a heated exchange on President Trump's travel ban. by [Jennifer Calfas](https://time.com/author/jennifer-calfas/) ## Jennifer Calfas May 9, 2017 12:58 PM UTC Texas Sen. [Ted Cruz](http://time.com/4681033/ted-cruz-bat-crap-crazy-transcript/) and former acting Attorney General [Sally Yates](http://time.com/4771272/sally-yates-testimony-senate-judiciary-transcript/) engaged in a heated debate over President Donald Trump’s now-stalled travel ban for refugees from a number of Muslim-majority countries. The exchange occurred during [Yates’s testimony](http://time.com/4770282/sally-yates-michael-flynn-russia-election/) before a Senate Judiciary subcommittee on [Russian interference](http://time.com/4597792/mitch-mcconnell-strongly-condemns-russian-interference-in-2016-election/) in the [2016 U.S. presidential election](http://time.com/4563685/donald-trump-wins/). The fiery back-and-forth began when Cruz turned the conversation from Russian interference to Trump’s travel ban, which Yates refused to defend and was then fired by the Trump Administration in February. Cruz asked Yates if an attorney general has the authority to defy a “policy decision that is lawful” from the president. “I don’t know whether the attorney general has the authority to do that or not, but I don’t think that would be a good idea. And that’s not what I did in this case,” Yates responded. Cruz then cited [a statute](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/8/1182) that allows the president to suspend entry from foreign visitors to the U.S. Yates said she agreed with the statute, but then responded by quoting the Immigration and Nationality Act, which says, “no person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of the person’s race, sex, nationality, place of birth, or place of residence.” Yates said she was not concerned with whether Trump’s order fell under the act, but was more interested in whether or not it was constitutional. She also cited a directive from the Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Counsel, saying she “was not convinced” the executive order was “lawful.” “In this particular instance, particularly where we were talking about a fundamental issue of religious freedom — not the interpretation of some arcane statue, but religious freedom — it was appropriate for us to look at the intent behind the president’s actions,” Yates said. “And the intent is laid out in his statements.” Cruz ended the conversation by asking if Yates had ever heard of an instance of an attorney general directing the Department of Justice of not following a policy after the department approved its legality. “I’m not,” Yates responded. “But I’m also not aware of a situation where the Office of Legal Counsel was advised not to tell the attorney general about it until after it was over.” Watch the exchange in the video above. ## Transcript Let's revisit the topic Mrs. Yates that you and Senator [ UNKNOWN ] were talking about. Okay. Is it correct that the constitution vests the executive authority in the president? Yes. And if an Attorney General disagrees with a policy decision of the president, a policy decision that is lawful Does the attorney- general have the authority to direct the Department of Justice to defy the president's order? I don't know whether the attorney- general has the authority to do that or not, but I don't think it would be a good idea. And that's not what I did in this case. Well, are you familiar with 8 USC section 1182? Not off the top of my head, no. Well it is the binding statutory authority for the executive order that you refused to implement and that led to your termination. So it certainly is a relevant and not obscure statute. [ LAUGH ]. By the expressed text of the statute it says quote. Whenever the President finds that the entry of any alien, or of any class of aliens in the United States would be detrimental to the interest of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens, or any class of aliens, as immigrants or non- immigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem appropriate. Would you agree that is broad statutory authorization? I would and I am familiar with that, and I'm also familiar with an additional provision of the INA that says no person shall receive preference or be discriminated against issuance of a VISA because of race, nationality or place of birth. That I believe was promulgated after the statue that you just quoted and that's been part of the discussion with the court, with respect to the INA is whether this more specific statute tramps that first one that you just described. But my concern wasn't on INA concern here it rather was a constitutional concern whether or not this The executive order here violated the Constitution, specifically with the establishment clause and equal protection and due process. There is no doubt the arguments you laid out are arguments that we can expect litigants to bring, participant litigants who disagree with the policy decision of the President. I would note on January 27th 2017 the Department of Justice issued an official legal decision, a determination by office of legal counsel that the executive order and I'll quote from the opinion, the proposed order is a approved with respect to form and legality. That's a determination from LLC. On January 27th, that it was legal. Three days later, you determined, using your own words, that although the LLC had opined on legality, it had not addressed whether it was, wise or Just And I also in that same directed Senator said that I was not convinced it was lawful. I also made the point that the office of OLC looks purely at the face of the document, and again, makes a determination as to whether there is some set of circumstances under which some portion of that EO would be enforceable, would be lawful. They importantly do not look outside the face of the document. And in this particular instance, particularly where we were talking about a fundamental issue of religious freedom not the interpretation of some arcane statute but religious freedom is was appropriate for us to look at the intent behind the President's actions. And the intent is laid out in his statements. Final very brief question. In the oer 200 years of the Department of Justice history Are you aware of any instance in which the Department of Justice has formally approved the legality of a policy and three days later, the attorney general has directed the department not to follow that policy and to defy that policy? I'm not. But I'm also not aware of the situation where the Office of Legal Council was advised to not to tell the attorney general. About and until after it was over. [ BLANK_AUDIO ] Thank you Miss Yates. I would note that might be the case if there's reason to suspect partisanship. 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