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France’s Marine Le Pen on Brexit: ‘This Is the Beginning of the End of the European Union’

6 minute read

Marine Le Pen, the leader of France’s far-right National Front, was one of the few European politicians to celebrate Britain’s decision to exit the European Union. In an interview with TIME, she explains how she plans to use the Brexit example to pull France out of the E.U.—and why she is so sure she will succeed.

Read More: English Brexit Vote Has Revived Calls for a United Ireland

You said Brexit is the biggest thing in Europe since the fall of the Berlin Wall. Is this the end of the E.U.?

Yes, this is the beginning of the end of the European Union. And I hope the birth of the Europe of nations, a Europe of cooperation, that we’ve been propounding for years. The European Union is objectively a total failure. It’s a social failure, it’s an economic failure, it’s a failure in terms of power, it’s a diplomatic failure. They are doing exactly what they did in the Soviet Union. When the results were not in line with expectations, [the Soviets] would say it didn’t work because there was not enough Communism. And the European Union is the same. Each time there is a failure they say it is because there is not enough Europe. The British people have just said ‘stop. For us it’s the end. It’s over.’

Read More: Germany’s Merkel to Put the E.U. Back Together

What is the path for you between now and the French exit from the E.U.?

In order to organize the referendum I need to win the presidential elections [next year]. I’m the only major candidate that has proposed a referendum, and that has been since four years ago, since before [U.K. Prime Minister David] Cameron, that I suggested organizing a referendum. I would go to the European institutions, I would demand for the French people four sovereignties: territorial—our borders; monetary and budgetary; economic; and legislative. Either the European Union says yes to me, or they would say no, and I would say to the French, there is no only other solution but to leave the E.U.

In your opinion the E.U. cannot be saved or reformed?

Was the Soviet Union reformable? I would say no. They said, ‘okay the Soviet Union isn’t working,’ They would say, ‘no it’s great. We just need democracy, political pluralism, private property.’ And then there was no Soviet Union. The European Union is the same.

Waking Up in a Changed Nation

"Taken from the headlines of The New Yorker: 'British lose right to claim that Americans are Dumber'." Brexit referendum. London, UK, June 24th, 2016.
Paolo Pellegrin: "Taken from the headlines of The New Yorker: 'British lose right to claim that Americans are Dumber'." Brexit referendum. London, UK, June 24th, 2016. Paolo Pellegrin—Magnum Photos
“It is depressing. Great Britain is an island, but until today it was part of Europe. Meant to be tight. To be bonded to those countries. I need it to be reversed.” St. Pancras Station, London, UK, June 22, 2016.
Patrick Zachmann: “It is depressing. Great Britain is an island, but until today it was part of Europe. Meant to be tight. To be bonded to those countries. I need it to be reversed.” St. Pancras Station, London, UK, June 22, 2016.Patrick Zachmann—Magnum Photos
“Fuck this.” Polling station on the day of the Brexit vote, London, UK, June 23, 2016.
Mikhael Subotzky: “F*ck this.” Polling station on the day of the Brexit vote, London, UK, June 23, 2016.Mikhael Subotzky—Magnum Photos
“The British have always been the best and sharpest contrarians…the irony, the satire, the against-the-grain nature. But this might not have been the time for that…well, I guess as a Norwegian I now should welcome them into the outside-club!” Lips on Old Street, London, UK, June 23, 2016.
Jonas Bendiksen: “The British have always been the best and sharpest contrarians…the irony, the satire, the against-the-grain nature. But this might not have been the time for that…well, I guess as a Norwegian I now should welcome them into the outside-club!” Lips on Old Street, London, UK, June 23, 2016.Jonas Bendiksen—Magnum Photos
“GB for me? No idea how to answer that this morning.” Post Brexit referendum, London, UK, 2016.
Christopher Anderson: “GB for me? No idea how to answer that this morning.” Post Brexit referendum, London, UK, 2016.Christopher Anderson—Magnum Photos
“I have spent half my working life photographing Britain and the British and I have no illusions about the dark side of the nation but I believed the good in the nation outweighed the bad and that gave me pride and respect for my country, but I do feel that the rejection of tolerance, and respect for our fellows that was enshrined in the referendum vote rejecting the EU is a stain on the nation. It is an acceptance of xenophobia and small mindedness. It is the cry of a diminished nation howling NO!!!” Broken eggs on Old Street, London, UK, 2016.
Chris Steele-Perkins: “I have spent half my working life photographing Britain and the British and I have no illusions about the dark side of the nation but I believed the good in the nation outweighed the bad and that gave me pride and respect for my country, but I do feel that the rejection of tolerance, and respect for our fellows that was enshrined in the referendum vote rejecting the EU is a stain on the nation. It is an acceptance of xenophobia and small mindedness. It is the cry of a diminished nation howling NO!!!” Broken eggs on Old Street, London, UK, 2016.Chris Steele-Perkins—Magnum Photos
“Great Britain for me was all about inclusion, a place where immigrants from less fortunate parts of the world are welcome, like the America of Europe. Sadly, today marks the beginning of a different kind of nation, one filled with uncertainty and fear about the future.” Cale Salih, my wife, a British citizen, waking up to the news of the Brexit vote. London, UK, June 24, 2016.
Moises Saman: “Great Britain for me was all about inclusion, a place where immigrants from less fortunate parts of the world are welcome, like the America of Europe. Sadly, today marks the beginning of a different kind of nation, one filled with uncertainty and fear about the future.” Cale Salih, my wife, a British citizen, waking up to the news of the Brexit vote. London, UK, June 24, 2016.Moises Saman—Magnum Photos
“Very sad day from my side.” Parliament to Downing Street a few minutes after the Prime Minister resigned. London, UK, June 24, 2016.
Stuart Franklin: “Very sad day from my side.” Parliament to Downing Street a few minutes after the Prime Minister resigned. London, UK, June 24, 2016.Stuart Franklin—Magnum Photos
“After all those quirky Britts posting ‘Romaine’ all day yesterday.” Day after the Brexit referendum, London, UK, June 24, 2016.
Thomas Dworzak: “After all those quirky Britts posting ‘Romaine’ all day yesterday.” Day after the Brexit referendum, London, UK, June 24, 2016.Thomas Dworzak—Magnum Photos
The day after the Brexit vote, London, UK, June 24, 2016.
Chien-Chi Chang: “I am speechless, is Austria next?” The day after the Brexit vote, London, UK, June 24, 2016. Chien-Chi Chang—Magnum Photos
“Hope it’s not as bad as it seems.” A day after Brexit vote. Borough Market, London, UK, June 24, 2016. Dave Santos, 31 from Canary Islands, works for a Spanish food company. He has been studying here for many years and doesn’t know what he is going to do post October.
Sohrab Hura: “Hope it’s not as bad as it seems.” A day after Brexit vote. Borough Market, London, UK, June 24, 2016. Dave Santos, 31 from Canary Islands, works for a Spanish food company. He has been studying here for many years and doesn’t know what he is going to do post October. Sohrab Hura—Magnum Photos
“There was nobody in the polling station when I went to vote, probably (hopefully I thought) because of the torrential rain coming down outside. ‘Are you documenting the determination to vote?!’ shouted a passer-by. The moment seemed friendly, light and very British. I went off feeling ultimately positive and so I was devastated this morning to wake up to the news that we had collectively made this huge, stupid, irreversible decision.” London, UK, June 23, 2016.
Olivia Arthur: “There was nobody in the polling station when I went to vote, probably (hopefully I thought) because of the torrential rain coming down outside. ‘Are you documenting the determination to vote?!’ shouted a passer-by. The moment seemed friendly, light and very British. I went off feeling ultimately positive and so I was devastated this morning to wake up to the news that we had collectively made this huge, stupid, irreversible decision.” London, UK, June 23, 2016. Olivia Arthur—Magnum Photos

How has Brexit changed your political prospects in the French presidential elections next year?

With each day that passes we are shown to be right. Every day that passes validates the analysis that we have put forward these past years, often very alone, often very much against everyone, very often mocked, insulted. The Brexit has given a new demonstration. They told us that it was not possible to leave the E.U. The British people just showed that yes, it is possible. So, we’ve taken note. They joined together to demonstrate against the system. The people in fact wanted to get out. And me, I say, that in many other countries in the E.U., people also want to get out.

Currently the polls say you wouldn’t win a referendum to get France out of the E.U.

Oh really? I don’t know that, myself. That is what people said in Britain. Hah.

What’s the ideal relationship now for the U.K. with the E.U.?

A neighboring country that must go through commercial agreements with the European Union. The E.U. has agreements—and worse than that, free trade agreements—with more than 30 countries in the world: Colombia, Mexico, Albania, Algeria, the Farro Islands… Great Britain is at the same time our neighbor, a European country, and in terms of its economy mostly structured in the same manner, like the big European countries. There is no justification to reject this agreement, except if they want to punish Great Britain, unless they want to avenge Great Britain. But there again would be profoundly anti-democratic. Voilà.

Read More: Could Queen Elizabeth Veto Brexit?

Aside from France, who else will want to get out of the E.U.?

It depends on the elections. We don’t know. I don’t know what might intervene. The signal that has been launched is a real deep upset of conscience. Because the idea, again, the argument that it is impossible to leave the E.U., that was hammered over years and years, that has just collapsed as a result of the act of conscience that has been taken by the people against the European Union.

Why did the British vote to leave the E.U.?

Freedom, the right to decide for themselves. Immigration, undeniably. Social dumping organized by the directive of free movement of workers. I think these were three elements. And perhaps the cost of the E.U., because it costs a lot every year. I think these were the elements.

Does the Brexit change everything for you?

It doesn’t change everything. It’s a validation of the political engagement fought with deep conviction, under conditions that are very difficult. The system is ranged against us, I have to tell you. In France you will not find a single media outlet who is for a referendum. Not one. Not one. Not one political figure. Not one media. Not one party. Not one trade union. It’s not easy to fight within those conditions. But when you have a good thing that happens like that [the Brexit] obviously, it’s a moment of joy. Because it is gives energy to continue.

What’s your prediction for 10 years from now for Europe?

I think within 10 years the European Union will be deconstructed. There will be these buildings, these meetings, these nations. We will work together in work groups on projects. Like Ariane [the E.U. space program], or Erasmus [E.U. student exchange program]. These are projects that have nothing to do with the European Union, the single market. It will be what I call a Europe of cooperation. Some people will find a project and circulate it, and some will say, I like this project, others will say I don’t like it, I don’t want to participate.

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