--- title: Democratic Debate: Wall Street Fight Shows Divide description: One calls for revolution; the other, evolution. canonical: https://time.com/4208960/democratic-debate-bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-wall-street/ author: Haley Sweetland Edwards article:opinion: false article:content_tier: free article:published_time: 2016-02-05T05:32:26.000Z article:modified_time: 2026-10-05T08:41:04.165Z article:section: Politics og:title: How the Fight Over Wall Street Shows the Democratic Divide og:description: Sanders calls for revolution; Clinton, evolution. og:url: https://time.com/4208960/democratic-debate-bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-wall-street/ og:site_name: TIME og:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt315fa7bb0f744df0/69887c40f887dc1d5fe94777/timepol-democratic-debate-bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-16.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 og:image:width: 3000 og:image:height: 1688 og:image:alt: TIMEPOL Bernie Sanders Hillary Clinton og:type: article twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: How the Fight Over Wall Street Shows the Democratic Divide twitter:description: Sanders calls for revolution; Clinton, evolution. twitter:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt315fa7bb0f744df0/69887c40f887dc1d5fe94777/timepol-democratic-debate-bernie-sanders-hillary-clinton-16.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 ---  # How the Fight Over Wall Street Shows the Democratic Divide > Sponsored content. 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Brief is free at time.com/newsletters. ### Sources * TIME Newsletters: [time.com/newsletters](/c/time-nl-dcbrief-2026q3/newsletters?i=e829cc15-da7f-45d6-8e2b-d4836eba0a20&cr=time-nl-dcbrief-2026q3-v1) ## Video: Watch the Fifth Democratic Debate In Under Four Minutes [Watch (HLS stream): Watch the Fifth Democratic Debate In Under Four Minutes](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/VvAqVRIg.m3u8) (3:57)  _Published 2016-02-05_  by [Haley Sweetland Edwards](https://time.com/author/haley-sweetland-edwards/)  ## Haley Sweetland Edwards Feb 5, 2016 5:32 AM UTC  by [Haley Sweetland Edwards](https://time.com/author/haley-sweetland-edwards/)  ## Haley Sweetland Edwards Feb 5, 2016 5:32 AM UTC When it comes to public policy, Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton both use shades of Democratic blue. But he paints with a broad brush, while she prefers a finer point. At Thursday’s debate, those differences came out most clearly on the topic of Wall Street, which animates Sanders’ populist base. “I want to say something, and it may sound harsh, not to you, but to the American people,” he said, repeating a well-worn phrase from the campaign trail. “In a sense, in my view, the business model of Wall Street is fraud. It’s fraud.” That passion plays well to the cheap seats, helping propel Sanders from the political wilderness to a virtual tie in Iowa this week and a likely rout in New Hampshire next Tuesday. But it also leaves Sanders open to the attack that he’s naive — a revolutionary without a road map. Sanders, for example, frequently calls for breaking up the big banks, but he [doesn’t actually spell out what that would mean](http://www.vox.com/2016/1/21/10802660/bernie-sanders-bank-breakup). How many banks would be broken up? Which ones? How would he overcome Republican and corporate resistance? Sanders routinely calls for the reinstatement of Glass-Steagall, the late, lamented law that drew a bright line between commercial banks and their wilder investment-oriented brethren. But he says nothing about [what to do with the thousands of powerful, non-bank entities](http://www.newyorker.com/business/currency/hillary-clinton-gets-bernie-sanders-doesnt-wall-street), like the hedge funds, mutual funds, private-equity funds and massive insurance firms, including former AIG, all of which have multiplied like bunnies in the financial district in the past 10 years, and none of which would be affected by a reinstated Glass-Steagall. It’s here where Clinton is strongest on the policy but weakest on the politics. Ever the wonk, the former New York Senator doesn’t cotton to Sanders’ barn-burning, instead embracing a finer-tuned technocratic approach. Like Sanders, she wants to rein in Wall Street, she says, but she wants to do it in a more subtle, studied way. “I have great respect for Senator Sanders’ commitment to try to restore Glass-Steagall. But I do not believe that that is enough. And in fact, I don’t believe it really addresses a lot of the biggest issues we have,” she said at the debate. The more pragmatic solution, she explained, would be to embrace President Obama’s 2010 Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Act, and then enforce and [strengthen existing rules inside of that existing regulatory apparatus](http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/07/opinion/hillary-clinton-how-id-rein-in-wall-street.html). “You know, we now have power under the Dodd-Frank legislation to break up banks. And I’ve said I will use that power if they pose a systemic risk. But I want to go further, because it was investment banks, it was insurance companies, it was mortgage companies, all of which contributed,” she said. She then pointed voters to her dense, [nearly 5,000-word proposal](https://www.hillaryclinton.com/briefing/factsheets/2015/10/08/wall-street-work-for-main-street/), which is complete with footnotes and studded with such scintillating sentences as “Ensure that DPAs and NPAs impose fines that are significant enough to deter illegal activity, so that firms do not have an incentive to break the law.” To the ramparts! Clinton’s ever-staid pragmatism plays well with moderates as well as many liberal Republicans who find themselves alienated by both GOP front runners. But, just as Sanders’ broad strokes is both a strength and weakness, Clinton’s attention to detail leaves her wide open to Sanders’ criticism that she is too easy on Wall Street. And therein lies the fundamental difference between the two Democratic candidates. Sanders would to tear down the broken institutions of American governance and try to build them anew, while Clinton would burrow into the hulking, creaking machine and pull the levers from within. In short, Sanders calls for revolution; Clinton, for evolution. ## Transcript Almost all new income and wealth is going to the top 1 % not what America is supposed to be about. I believe that we can get back on the right track. I'm fighting for people who cannot wait for those changes and I'm not making promises that I cannot keep. All right The idea that I would dismantle health care in America while we're waiting to pass a Medicare for all is just not accurate. I think we should be talking about what we wanna do for the country, but if we're gonna get into labels, I don't think it was particularly progressive to vote against the Brady Bill five times. [ APPLAUSE ] I don't think it was progressive Progressive to vote to give gun makers and sellers immunity. I went to Wall Street before the crash. I was the one saying, you're gonna wreck the economy because of these shenanigans with mortgages. These guys are so powerful that not one of the executives on Wall Street Has been charged with anything after paying, in this case of Goldman- Sachs, a $ 5 billion fine. Kid gets caught with marijuana, that kid has a police record. Because it was investment banks, it was insurance companies, it was mortgage companies, All of which contributed, so let's not just be narrowly focused on one part of the problem. We have a lot of issues with corporate power that have to be addressed. In my view, the business model of Wall Street is fraud, is fraud. Not only did we have to bail them out once, If we don't start breaking them up, we're gonna have to bail them out again. And I do not wanna see that happen. This was a disaster for our country and we can never let that happen again. We have no disagreement about this. We differ on the war in Iraq which created barbaric organizations like Isis Not only did I vote against that war, I help lead the opposition. Look. We did defer. A vote in 2002 is not a plan to defeat ISIS. We have to look at the threats that we face right now, and we have to be prepared to take them on and defeat them. Here's why I think I will be if nominated the strongest candidate. Democrats win when there is a large voter turnout. When people are excited, when working people, middle class people and young people are prepared to engage in the political process. It's not so much electability, it is who the American people can believe Can keep them safe, can get the economy moving again, can get incomes rising, can build on the progressive accomplishments of President Obama. And I think that the coalition that President Obama put together to win twice. Is a coalition that I can put together and add to. If I'm so fortunate as to be the nominee, first person I will call to talk to about where we go and how we get it done will be Senator Sanders. [ APPLAUSE ] And as I have said many times, sometimes in these campaigns these things get a little bit out of hand. I happen to respect the Secretary very much. I hope it's mutual. And on our worst days I think it is fair to say we are a hundred times better than any Republican candidate for president. [ APPLAUSE ] I hear some talks that people are trying Try and decide, do they vote with their heart? Do they vote with their head? I'm asking you to bring both your heart and your head to vote with you on Tuesday. Because we have a lot of work that can only come because your heart is moved. I do believe we need a political revolution where millions of people stand up and say loudly and clearly That our government belongs to all of us and not just a handful of wealthy campaign contributors. Thank you all. 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