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title: The Democrats Stumble Toward 50 Shades of Socialism
description: How much should the government redistribute?
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author: Joe Klein
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article:published_time: 2016-01-21T11:31:12.000Z
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og:title: The Democrats Stumble Toward 50 Shades of Socialism
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![](https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt7f4e8413752c296d/69887a2fe20a87653aa8f2c2/bernie-sanders13.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9)


# The Democrats Stumble Toward 50 Shades of Socialism

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## Video: Bernie Sanders Talks with TIME About Winning the White House

[Watch (HLS stream): Bernie Sanders Talks with TIME About Winning the White House](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/clgpbJGO.m3u8) (3:02)

![Bernie Sanders Talks with TIME About Winning the White House](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/v2/media/clgpbJGO/poster.jpg?width=720)

_Published 2016-01-20. After nearly nine months of on the campaign trail, Bernie Sanders’ message of political revolution is starting to break through where it counts._


by 

[Joe Klein](https://time.com/author/joe-klein/)


## Joe Klein


Jan 21, 2016 11:31 AM UTC

![Bernie Sanders](https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt7f4e8413752c296d/69887a2fe20a87653aa8f2c2/bernie-sanders13.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=3:2)

Bernie Sanders speaks during a campaign stop in Peterborough, NH on Jan. 21, 2016.

Bernie Sanders speaks during a campaign stop in Peterborough, NH on Jan. 21, 2016. Matt Rourke—AP

by 

[Joe Klein](https://time.com/author/joe-klein/)


## Joe Klein


Jan 21, 2016 11:31 AM UTC

A specter is haunting the Democratic Party–the specter of socialism. A question is being asked, mostly by Republicans, but also by MSNBC’s Chris Matthews: What is the difference between a Democrat and a Socialist? Debbie Wasserman Schultz got it last July and, ever the robotic partisan, answered by saying the more important difference was between Democrats and Republicans. Senator Chuck Schumer said it depended on how you define the two, and then refused to define the two. And, most significantly, Hillary Clinton said, “Well, I can tell you what I am … I’m a progressive Democrat.”

Now this is not a difficult question to answer. Webster’s says socialism is “a social system or theory in which the government owns and controls the means of production.” Democrats tend to believe in free enterprise. They think government should regulate the means of production, not own it. They have taken great pains to separate themselves from socialism, which has always been a poison word in American politics. And yet, according to a recent Des Moines Register poll, 43% of Iowa Democrats describe themselves as socialists. What gives?

Well, they’re not really socialists. They’re European-style social democrats, who believe in a robust redistribution of wealth (“from each according to her ability, to each according to his need”) and government control of some of the means of production–like the health care system. The question of how much government should redistribute has been the central argument in American politics since the passage of the graduated income tax in 1913\. Even the vast majority of Republicans believe in Social Security and Medicare.


So we’re talking about 50 shades of socialism here, but the gradations are still important. Take health care: Bernie Sanders is proposing socialized medicine, and Hillary Clinton isn’t. The majority of Americans get their health insurance from their employers through private insurance companies. It’s a clunky system, and Sanders wants to eliminate the middlemen–the insurance companies. Clinton believes government should help those who can’t get insurance through their employers–the poor (Medicaid), the working poor (Obamacare), the elderly (Medicare). There couldn’t be a clearer difference between liberalism and socialism, and yet Clinton refused to describe it that way in the Jan. 17 presidential debate; in fact, she empretzeled herself with a weak attack on Sanders, saying his plan would jeopardize the advances that Obamacare has brought. Her campaign has charged that Sanders would raise taxes on the middle class to pay for it. (True, but he’d eliminate insurance premiums–a net gain.) In fact, the best argument against Sanders’ health plan is the essential case against socialism–which Clinton’s supporters raised after the debate–and its next of kin, redistributionism: it dampens incentives, which dampens creativity, which leads to poverty. It is the difference between the “fairer” but more lugubrious European economies and our riskier but more dynamic way of doing business. At their best, Democrats are like European conservatives, leaning toward more fairness and wary of government control.


Sanders is in favor of some very good things, like breaking up the big banks. (There are even fastidious conservatives who agree with him because of the “moral hazard” involved.) His notion of a tax on hyperspeculative Wall Street gaming would be a more effective reform than the bramble of incomprehensible regulations comprised in the Dodd-Frank bill. His support for huge infrastructure spending is good too; it would make our free market more efficient and provide some nice muscle work for less-educated laborers. But each of those ideas is more “progressive” than “socialist.”

It is still far more likely that Clinton wins the Democratic nomination than Sanders–but even Bernie should worry about his party strolling into the general election unwilling to distinguish itself from socialism. Indeed, the Democrats should worry about their attachment to big government, which, in America, has come to mean more unaccountable bureaucracy, like the Department of Veterans Affairs; more inefficiency, like the weird tangle of federal job-training programs, each more irrelevant than the last; and more perverse incentives, like welfare programs that ask for nothing–no personal responsibility–in return from their recipients. Big government is the way I was treated at the post office this afternoon.


So we have this strange election: Republicans race toward know-nothing nativism, and Democrats stumble toward socialism. Both are reactionary, discredited ideas. I want my country back!


## Transcript

[ APPLAUSE ] If the question is, can a Bernie Sanders, and what he stands for, and the fight for economic and social justice carry over to the general election, and millions of working people I think the evidence is that it can. Democrats love Bernie Sanders. Out of New Hampshire tonight, beating Hillary Clinton by 27 points- He is in vogue among younger voters, and they have a lot of passion for him. Democratic primary campaign that no one could have anticipated just a few weeks ago. There's never been another candidate like Bernie that can do what needs to be done. For me this is a life- time event.

Raise your hands if you have not [ UNKNOWN ] with us before. Okay. Republicans win when voter turnout is low, when people are demoralized. That's the conditions that they do well in, so if in November of 2016 You have a demoralized, unenergetic base in the Democratic party, there is a decent chance that a Republican can win. If you have an excited Democratic base, and Independents, who are saying, you know what? It's time for real change in this country. It is time for a political revolution. Then we win. Voters are beginning to see Sanders as a possible nominee. Bernie Sanders is aware that African- American voters are not as familiar with him.

He's really trying to figure out a way to introduce himself to African- American voters. [ MUSIC ] I don't think any president, not Bernie Sanders or anyone else Is able alone to address the major crisis facing this country. [ APPLAUSE ] The fact that we have received 2 and a half million individual contributions, unheard of, unprecedented. People want real change, so I think the message that we have Is a message for the middle class, working families, low income people, all over this country who are hungering and crying out for a very significant change in the current economic and political system.

That the American people and young people Are prepared to stand up, to recapture our government for the big money interest. I want people to know what is going on in Congress to voice their opinion. Virtually all of the ideas that I am bringing forth, maybe all of them. Are supported widely by the Americans. You tell me. Hours a week deserve a living wage. [ NOISE ] How does it happen when overwhelming numbers of Democrats, Republicans, and Independents want to raise the minimum wage we can't get a minimum wage bill on the floor? Overwhelmingly people believe in pay equity for women. Overwhelmingly people believe in sensible gun safety legislation.

Overwhelmingly the people believe that the wealthy should pay their fair share in taxes, so the question that you guys have got to ask is how does it happen that congress is far removed from the American people? I hope to bridge that gap. [ APPLAUSE ]

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