--- title: Gene Baur on Cheap Food and Farm Animal Activism description: The farm animal activist on cheap food, annoying protestors and the rise of giant sexless turkeys canonical: https://time.com/39854/10-questions-with-gene-baur/ author: Belinda Luscombe article:opinion: false article:content_tier: free article:published_time: 2014-03-27T10:49:10.000Z article:modified_time: 2026-08-04T08:01:29.662Z article:section: Entertainment og:title: Gene Baur on Cheap Food and Farm Animal Activism og:description: The farm animal activist on cheap food, annoying protestors and the rise of giant sexless turkeys og:url: https://time.com/39854/10-questions-with-gene-baur/ og:site_name: TIME og:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt32127744916297e0/69868776810bbb43bcc90b38/cul-10q-baur.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 og:image:width: 2000 og:image:height: 1125 og:image:alt: CUL-10Q-BAUR og:type: article twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: Gene Baur on Cheap Food and Farm Animal Activism twitter:description: The farm animal activist on cheap food, annoying protestors and the rise of giant sexless turkeys twitter:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/blt32127744916297e0/69868776810bbb43bcc90b38/cul-10q-baur.jpg?branch=production&width=1200&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 ---  # 10 Questions with Gene Baur > Sponsored content. 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Terms and conditions apply. * Savings buckets are a feature of Ally Bank's Savings Account. * No ATM fees from Ally Bank at Allpoint and Moneypass ATMs plus we reimburse for fees charged by other ATM owners nationwide up to $10 per statement cycle. * Early direct deposit offers eligible direct deposits up to two days sooner. * Spending buckets are a feature of Ally Bank's Spending Account. ## Video: 10 Questions with Gene Baur [Watch (HLS stream): 10 Questions with Gene Baur](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/JdySnYte.m3u8) (5:52)  _Published 2014-03-27. Farm animal activist Gene Baur talks to TIME's Belinda Luscombe about animal sanctuaries, ethical eggs, and his guilty pleasure food item_  by [Belinda Luscombe](https://time.com/author/belinda-luscombe/)  ## Belinda Luscombe Editor at Large Mar 27, 2014 10:49 AM UTC  Portrait of Gene Baur Portrait of Gene Baur Javier Sirvent for TIME  by [Belinda Luscombe](https://time.com/author/belinda-luscombe/)  ## Belinda Luscombe Editor at Large Mar 27, 2014 10:49 AM UTC **Your organization, Farm Sanctuary, is a farm in what sense?** It’s a farm in the sense that it has barns and pastures and fields. We grow hay for the animals, but it’s primarily a sanctuary, a place where animals get to live out their lives. **Like a Florida for livestock?** Kind of, but most farm animals who are raised and slaughtered in the U.S. are killed when they’re a few weeks or months old. You know, the only native farm animal in North America is the turkey. Turkeys have been so profoundly altered that they cannot even reproduce naturally anymore. And they grow so fast and so large that their hearts and their legs have a hard time supporting them. For some, it would be better if they were not born. **You’re a vegan. Isn’t it possible to eat eggs or wear wool without harming anything?** Whenever animals are seen as units for production, there are problems with the way we relate to them. If you have chickens who are your companions and are laying eggs, then I don’t see an ethical problem with eating the eggs. But if you’re getting chickens from a hatchery that’s breeding them to be mass-production hens, you have male chicks that are killed the day they’re born because they’re not economically viable. **But factory farming means food is cheap. Aren’t starving people a bigger problem than mistreated animals?** Just because a hamburger is cheap at the fast-food restaurant doesn’t mean that there aren’t much greater costs associated with it, such as health and environmental destruction. And taxpayers subsidize this cheap factory-farmed food with the production of cheap corn and soybeans that are used as animal feed. **This year a new California law on the confinement of farm animals went into effect. How has agribusiness responded?** Proposition 2 prohibits the confinement of animals in cages and crates where they can’t turn around or stretch their limbs. Industry is still fighting that. My feeling is that they’re trying to buy time so that they can transition away from these industrial types of units into systems that treat animals a little bit better. But those alternatives are far from humane. The animals just have a little bit more space. **Duck shooting or factory farming–which is worse?** I think wild animals have better lives than animals in factory farms. So \[hunting\] is relatively less bad, but I would still not call it good. **You moved off the farm to D.C. Is lobbying the way forward?** It’s very difficult to get very much done in Washington or in most state capitals because agribusiness is so powerful. Most changes ultimately are going to happen in the marketplace as consumers start voting with their dollars in a way that does not cause animals to suffer. **How far does this go? Are you a supporter of the campaign for personhood for chimpanzees?** Farm Sanctuary is not involved with that, although we are sympathetic with it. Animals need to be recognized as living, feeling creatures. **Have animal-rights activists ever crossed the line to being public nuisances?** These issues are very emotional, and people become very passionate. But I think certain acts have probably not served our movement well. The core value of our movement is empathy for other animals, including human animals. **How much do you regret acting in a McDonald’s commercial as a kid?** I see it as a mistake. I wouldn’t do it again. But at that time I didn’t have a lot of awareness about what I was a part of. ## Transcript Hi, I'm Belinda Luscombe from Time Gene Bauer is animal activist and athlete and a 1000 % vegan and he's here to talk with us today Mr. Bauer thank you for coming. It's great to be here So, your organization Farm Sanctuary. Is it a farm in the sense that it produces anything? It is a farm in the sense that it is barns and pastures and fields we grow hay for the animals, but it's primarily a sanctuary, a place where the animals get to live out their lives. They're never exploited like animals are on most farms. So it's like a retirement home for animals? I would call it Sorta, for animals? Well, it's a refuge. It's kind of a retirement, but most farm animals who are raised and slaughtered in the U. S. are killed when they're just a few weeks or a few months old. > So it, retirement in the sense that they're being retired and removed from the industrial food system, but they're usually pretty young animals when they first come to us. You've explained pretty well the problem with factory farming. It's inhumane, the animals are treated really badly. The upside of factory farming, of course, is that the food is cheap. And we have 46 million people living in poverty in the United States. Mm- hm. What do you say to the argument that we want those people to be able to afford food? Just because a hamburger is cheap at the fast food restaurant doesn't mean that there are much greater costs associated with it, such as health. Such as environmental destruction. And also the fact that taxpayers subsidize this cheap factory farming food. So the factory farming system is actually quite costly when you look at all the various consequences of it. I think we can safely say, if you'll forgive me. Most people prefer to eat meat. Well, I think most people have the habit of eating meat, but they don't really think about where it comes from. We have habits. A lot of people might like to smoke or do a lot of other things that aren't necessarily the healthiest. Alright. So most people in the habit of eating meat and are disinclined to change, would you still consider it a victory if they, if the meat that they ate was humanely raised until its death? I think that any step away from the factory farming industry and towards treating animals with more respect is a positive step, but I would also say that a lot of the meat that is being marketed as humane isn't really coming from animals who are treated very well. And at the end of the day, we need to examine whether the term humane and slaughter fit well together. You know, slaughter is an inherently violent, bloody act. And it is something that is bad for the animals. And I would also say that it's bad for the people engaged in it. You know, can you imagine what, what it would be like to have a job where, for eight hours a day, all you're doing is cutting the throats of animals. I mean, it's a violent, bloody business. And it's not something that I would wish to do. And I don't think most people would wish to do it. And it's something that we don't have to do. That's the good news. We can live by eating plants without killing any animals. Where do you think is the next front or battleground for animal rights? In the marketplace, we are now seeing food companies and entrepreneurs that are developing alternatives to our animal- based food system. There's a company called Beyond Meat, for example, that's developing alternatives to meat. And the New York Times food critic, Mark Bittman, did a taste test between Beyond Meat and chicken, and he couldn't tell the difference. There are now entrepreneurs who are developing products that can compete head to head with animal foods and win. They will be cheaper to produce. They will be healthier and they will not come with the guilt associated with killing animals. Don't animals eat other animals? Yes. Carnivores eat other animals animals. Aren't we, I think. can't we have the carnivore teeth? Well we have very little carnivore teeth. If you look at our bodies, we have primarily teeth for grinding, we don't have claws for tearing into flesh. If we were natural carnivores, and we saw an animal who was bleeding or dead, we would tend to salivate, which a carnivore would do. But we don't tend to do that I think naturally. We are best suited to eat more plant foods. Now it is true that humans have, over the course of our history, eaten animal foods to survive, and I think we're omnivores, we are capable of doing that. But we don't have to do that. So, in your mind, it's just impossible to have an ethical egg. I think it may be possible to have an ethical egg. As long as the chicken is a part of the family, and not just seen as a production unit. And so, if somebody has a hen. And they allow that hen to live out her life. And if that hen gets sick, they provide veterinary care. If that hen is treated like a cat or a dog, for instance and if that hen is laying eggs, I don't see that as being a big, ethical problem. At Farm Sanctuary, we do not eat the eggs, because we don't want to set an example. No eggs. No Dairy, no meat, no honey, what, what is your guilty pleasure food? What do you eat when you're super depressed? [ LAUGH ] Well I try not to get depressed, and then when I, when I don't feel great, I think eating healthy food actually helps get you out of [ LAUGH ] a bad situation. But like a lot of people, I have a weakness for sugar, I really like sweets. But I try to eat well, and I try to eat greens, I try to eat whole foods, I try to eat a variety of foods. Well everybody tries to do that, I'm saying, you know, it's a sugar thing. So you'll eat, what can you have? Boiled lollies? Well, like almond milk is often times very sweet. Oh. So I like almond milk with chocolate chip cookies. Oh, there you go. That would be one of my guilty employees which I really quite enjoy. After a long day, you know, sort of, late at night, you know, milk and cookies. Yeah, kicking back, milk and cookies. Is wine allowed? Wine is allowed, yes. Wine is allowed, so, and beer? And I do occasionally. And beer is allowed. Yes, I enjoy both those. And pretty much all your hard liquors, right? Oh, yeah. Cause it's all grain. Oh, yeah, yeah. Mr Bower, thanks very much. 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