--- title: CIA Veteran says Defectors Like Edward Snowden 'Tend to be Lazy,' description: Says Snowden should not be pardoned canonical: https://time.com/2823581/cia-veteran-defectors-like-snowden-tend-to-be-lazy/ author: Belinda Luscombe article:opinion: false article:content_tier: free article:published_time: 2014-06-05T10:20:52.000Z article:modified_time: 2026-02-21T08:13:32.397Z article:section: U.S. og:title: CIA veteran imagines Snowden's Motives og:description: Says Snowden should not be pardoned og:url: https://time.com/2823581/cia-veteran-defectors-like-snowden-tend-to-be-lazy/ og:site_name: TIME og:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/bltf6770d70db4c7217/69869646361760032090c776/screen-shot-2014-06-05-at-7-30.jpg?branch=production&width=3840&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 og:image:width: 1200 og:image:height: 675 og:image:alt: Screen-Shot-2014-06-05-at-7.30 og:type: article twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: CIA veteran imagines Snowden's Motives twitter:description: Says Snowden should not be pardoned twitter:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/bltf6770d70db4c7217/69869646361760032090c776/screen-shot-2014-06-05-at-7-30.jpg?branch=production&width=3840&quality=75&auto=webp&crop=16:9 ---  # CIA Veteran: Defectors Like Snowden 'Tend to be Lazy' ## Video: 10 Questions with CIA-veteran Jack Devine [Watch (HLS stream): 10 Questions with CIA-veteran Jack Devine](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/WUM5wtSJ.m3u8) (6:57)  _Published 2014-06-04. Jack Devine, 32-year veteran of the CIA, talks to TIME's Belinda Luscombe about his new book "Good Hunting," what it's like being undercover, and his thoughts on Edward Snowden._  by [Belinda Luscombe](/author/belinda-luscombe/)  ## Belinda Luscombe Editor at Large Jun 5, 2014 10:20 AM CUT   by [Belinda Luscombe](/author/belinda-luscombe/)  ## Belinda Luscombe Editor at Large Jun 5, 2014 10:20 AM CUT Jack Devine, who served for 32 years in the CIA, much of it undercover, did some of his training with Aldrich Ames, whom the CIA considers one of the worst traitors in its history. He was also Ames’ boss. One of Devine’s jobs was to find people in hostile foreign nations who would betray their country for money, which he details in his new book _Good Hunting_, a spirited defense of the work ( and funding) of the CIA. So the dude has some experience with defectors. Devine says that turncoat agents always have some story, but when it comes don to it, they’re basically dissatisfied with the level they have reached in the CIA. “They’re usually well-read, and they think they’re smarter than everyone else, and they’re just not,” he says. He feels the same is true of Snowden. “I don’t think he was an agent of the Russians,” he notes. “But I would say today that you don’t stay in Russia for free.” In the good old paper version of the interview, which subscribers can read in Time, Devine talks about how he gets people to betray their countries, how he broke it to his kids that he was a spook and how the CIA director used to ask the technical department to get devices like he saw on _Get Smart_. 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