--- title: IRS Scandal Hearing: Elijah Cummings Argues With Darrel Issa description: Heated debate between Reps Elijah Cummings and Darrell Issa during hearing canonical: https://time.com/12889/irs-scandal-hearing-house-argument-lerner/ author: Sam Frizell article:opinion: false article:content_tier: free article:published_time: 2014-03-05T17:20:27.000Z article:modified_time: 2026-08-04T08:01:35.399Z article:section: Politics og:title: IRS Scandal Hearing: Elijah Cummings Argues With Darrel Issa og:description: Heated debate between Reps Elijah Cummings and Darrell Issa during hearing og:url: https://time.com/12889/irs-scandal-hearing-house-argument-lerner/ og:site_name: TIME og:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/bltde093bcdab65f2d0/6988d9b9bc6cfc69913e2a3c/time-logo.jpg?branch=production og:image:width: 1200 og:image:height: 675 og:image:alt: TIME og:type: article twitter:card: summary_large_image twitter:title: IRS Scandal Hearing: Elijah Cummings Argues With Darrel Issa twitter:description: Heated debate between Reps Elijah Cummings and Darrell Issa during hearing twitter:image: https://static.time.com/v3/assets/bltea6093859af6183b/bltde093bcdab65f2d0/6988d9b9bc6cfc69913e2a3c/time-logo.jpg?branch=production --- # WATCH: House Hearing On IRS Scandal Descends Into Shouting Match > Sponsored content. 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It explains the politics, personalities and power dynamics behind the headlines, twice a week. #### Where can I get analysis of Washington politics by email? D.C. Brief is TIME's free Washington politics newsletter, available at time.com/newsletters. It is written by a TIME senior correspondent who covers the capital full time. #### Who writes TIME's D.C. Brief? Philip Elliott, a senior correspondent at TIME, writes D.C. Brief. #### Is D.C. Brief free? Yes. D.C. Brief is free at time.com/newsletters. ### Sources * TIME Newsletters: [time.com/newsletters](/c/time-nl-dcbrief-2026q3/newsletters?i=b8fe1424-cc57-4b2b-b246-3a849dd9d13f&cr=time-nl-dcbrief-2026q3-v1) ## Video: Congressman Elijah Cummings in Heated Argument After IRS Hearing [Watch (HLS stream): Congressman Elijah Cummings in Heated Argument After IRS Hearing](https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/ucshjv5T.m3u8) (2:57)  _Published 2014-03-05. Congressman Elijah Cummings in Heated Argument After IRS Hearing_ by [Sam Frizell](https://time.com/author/sam-frizell/) ## Sam Frizell Mar 5, 2014 5:20 PM UTC by [Sam Frizell](https://time.com/author/sam-frizell/) ## Sam Frizell Mar 5, 2014 5:20 PM UTC Tempers [flared](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/05/former-irs-official-to-show-up/) during a House hearing on the IRS scandal Wednesday, as a top Democrat and Republican found themselves entangled in an impassioned dispute after former IRS official Lois Lerner refused to testify. Lerner invoked her Fifth Amendment rights once again Wednesday, refusing to answer questions from the the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee about her role in allegedly singling out Tea Party and other conservative groups for extra scrutiny when they applied for tax-exempt status. Lerner pleaded the Fifth at a hearing last year and did so again when she was called back to testify this week. Committee Chairman Rep. Darrell Issa (R-CA) then quickly adjourned the hearing, but as his gavel struck the lectern, ranking Democratic Rep. Elijah Cummings (D-MD) said he had a procedural question. Issa ignored Cummings and got up to leave, but not before the two got into a heated argument. “Mr. Chairman, you cannot run a committee like this,” Cummings said. Issa spoke over him, and gestured for the microphone to be turned off. “I am a member of the Congress of the United States. I am tired of this,” Cummings continued as the microphone switched off. Cummings later told TIME he wasn’t surprised at Issa’s behavior. “It’s not unusual, not with him,” he said. “He has shut off the mic before, not my mic but other members of the committee. I can think of at least one time within the last month where he has shut off somebody’s mic, and this is on national T.V.” “I think people are shocked that members of Congress would be treated that way,” Cummings added. Issa later accused Cummings of slandering him. “The fact is Mr. Cummings came to make a point of his objections to the process we’ve been going through,” he [told _Politico_](http://www.politico.com/story/2014/03/irs-hearing-lois-lerner-contempt-104293.html?hp=f1). “He was actually slandering me at the point that the microphone went off by claiming that this had not been a real investigation.” The IRS has been accused by Republican lawmakers of unfairly targeting Tea Party and conservative groups who have applied for tax-exempt status, but others counter the IRS rightly applies additional scrutiny to politically-affiliated groups, which are not supposed to be tax-exempt if political activities are their primary purpose. Watch the debate between Issa and Cummings here: \[[Fox News](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/03/05/former-irs-official-to-show-up/)\] _Additional reporting by Alex Rogers_ ## Transcript This committee. I can see no point in going further. I have no expectation that Miss Learner will cooperate with this committee and therefore we [ CROSSTALK ] Chairman. I have a statement. I have a procedural question Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman I have a procedural question. Mr. Chairman, you cannot run a committee like this. You just cannot do this. This is, we are better than that as a country, we're better than that as a committee. I have asked for a few minutes to as a [ INAUDIBLE ] the fact is, I'm asking a question. [ INAUDIBLE ] And I want to ask a question. What are we hiding? What's the big deal? May I ask my question? May I state my statement? You're you're all free to leave. We've adjourned but the gentleman may ask his question. Thank you very much. Mr. Chairman I have one procedural question and it goes to trying to help you get the information by the way that you just asked. What is your question? I'm, I'm going no, let me say what I have to say. I've listened to you for the last 15 or 20 minutes. Let me say what I have to say. So and I have one procedural. Miss Learner, you're released. You may. But first I would like to use my time to make, some brief points. For the past year, the central republican accusation in this investigation. We're adjourned. Close it down. Has been a liberal dilousion directed. Before our committee [ INAUDIBLE ] a single document. Thank you. We'll interview one witness [ INAUDIBLE ] [ CROSSTALK ] This one targeting of the president's political enemies effectively, and lying about it during the election. In [ UNKNOWN ] Mr. Cummings, He continued this theme on [ CROSSTALK ] Where is your question? I, if you will sit down and allow me to ask a question, I am a member of the Congress of the United States of America. I am tired of this. Well, We have, we have members over here, each who represent 700, 000 people. You can not just have a one- sided investigation. There is absolutely something wrong with that and it is absolutely un- American. Hear, hear. We had a hearing, it was adjourned. I gave you an opportunity to ask a question. You had no questions. I do have a question. I gave you for iii. Chairman, what are you hiding? He's taking the fifth, Elijah. [ LAUGH ] He [ INAUDIBLE ] on Sunday when he happened to appear on Fox News to discuss a Republican staff report, claiming that Miss Leaner was quote [ INAUDIBLE ] ```json [{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"NewsArticle","@id":"https://time.com/12889/irs-scandal-hearing-house-argument-lerner/","mainEntityOfPage":{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https://time.com/12889/irs-scandal-hearing-house-argument-lerner/"},"headline":"WATCH: House Hearing On IRS Scandal Descends Into Shouting Match","datePublished":"2014-03-05T17:20:27.000Z","dateModified":"2026-08-04T08:01:35.399Z","description":"Heated debate between Reps Elijah Cummings and Darrell Issa during hearing","url":"https://time.com/12889/irs-scandal-hearing-house-argument-lerner/","keywords":[],"thumbnailUrl":"","author":[{"@type":"Person","name":"Sam Frizell","jobTitle":null,"url":"https://time.com/author/sam-frizell/"}],"articleSection":"Politics","image":[],"publisher":{"@type":"Organization","name":"Time","url":"https://time.com/","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","url":"https://time.com/images/logo.png","width":528,"height":156},"foundingDate":"March 3, 1923","sameAs":["https://www.facebook.com/time","https://www.instagram.com/time/?hl=en","https://twitter.com/time","https://www.pinterest.com/timemagazine"]}},{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"BreadcrumbList","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"item":{"@id":"/section/politics/","name":"Politics"}},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"item":{"@id":"https://time.com/12889/irs-scandal-hearing-house-argument-lerner/","name":"WATCH: House Hearing On IRS Scandal Descends Into Shouting Match"}}]},{"@context":"https://schema.org","@type":"VideoObject","name":"Congressman Elijah Cummings in Heated Argument After IRS Hearing","description":"Congressman Elijah Cummings in Heated Argument After IRS Hearing","thumbnailUrl":"https://cdn.jwplayer.com/v2/media/ucshjv5T/poster.jpg?width=720","uploadDate":"2014-03-05T16:44:55.000Z","contentUrl":"https://cdn.jwplayer.com/manifests/ucshjv5T.m3u8","embedUrl":"https://time.com/12889/irs-scandal-hearing-house-argument-lerner/","duration":"PT2M57S","potentialAction":{"@type":"SeekToAction","target":"https://time.com/12889/irs-scandal-hearing-house-argument-lerner/?jw_start={seek_to_second_number}","startOffset-input":"required name=seek_to_second_number"}}] ```